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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nige View Post
    I'd put a lot of money on the fact Lewis would rejoin in exactly the same way.
    Yes - and he'd have been the one getting the 5 second penalty. Seb could have done better and ensured he didn't push Lewis towards the wall. Imagine if Lewis hadn't quite been able to brake and avoid hitting the wall? It could have been a bad accident had that happened.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nige View Post
    I'd put a lot of money on the fact Lewis would rejoin in exactly the same way.
    Which is what I said above in a roundabout way
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screacher View Post
    Yes - and he'd have been the one getting the 5 second penalty. Seb could have done better and ensured he didn't push Lewis towards the wall. Imagine if Lewis hadn't quite been able to brake and avoid hitting the wall? It could have been a bad accident had that happened.
    Just watched it in slow motion. You can see when Seb regained control and then made a second move to purposely put his car on the racing line. It was a cognitive decision. Stewards are always going to look at it
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  4. #104
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    Not re-entering the track safely and also not giving up a position potentially. So there were may be two rules broken. It was a shame but I think they had to expect something.
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  5. #105
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    Absolute joke of a penalty.
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  6. #106
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    No penalty IMO
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsaunders View Post
    Just watched it in slow motion. You can see when Seb regained control and then made a second move to purposely put his car on the racing line. It was a cognitive decision. Stewards are always going to look at it
    Iím not a fan of Vettel but nor sure I agree. If you look at the steering angle it looks like it, but the secondary right hand lock was to catch a slide Having said that, I think Lewis would have passed him within a lap or two without it. Either way, it was a sad end to a decent GP
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  8. #108
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    Clear as day from this angle: https://twitter.com/F1/status/1137817877032132608?s=20

    He's set the angle and deliberately blocks/goes for the wall push. He knows what he's doing. He deserves second and I'd happily say that if the cars were reversed.
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  9. #109
    Meh, multi 21 Seb, suck it up princess.
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  10. #110
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    Disagree with the penalty points, I think the loss of first was punishment enough - https://formulaspy.com/formula-1/vet...VsCd1SLnbrhYhU

    However, I guess if he gets punished for one he needs both and it could have been a serious incident without Hamilton backing out etc (driving like a multi-winning-world-champ).
    Last edited by Brando; 10-06-2019 at 07:18 AM.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brando View Post
    Clear as day from this angle: https://twitter.com/F1/status/1137817877032132608?s=20

    He's set the angle and deliberately blocks/goes for the wall push. He knows what he's doing. He deserves second and I'd happily say that if the cars were reversed.
    Fairly damning....... however, whether he did or didnít, the fact is that yet again Vettel made an error, the type that Hamilton seems not to make.
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  12. #112
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    ^^^^
    All this. The pressure from Ferrari & the whole of Italy must be really intense & getting more each day.

    Wonder if we ever will get to see Hamilton in a Ferrari & how he copes, a lot better than Seb is I bet.
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  13. #113
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    Hamilton's response spot on... Lol at Vettel trying to have a dig at Hamilton not racing him up the inside and 'just' passing him (then backpedalling slightly, and saying he didn't know where he was).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48577539

    Hamilton said: "The Ferraris were really quick. I just had to put him under pressure and force a mistake because they were so quick on the back straight that even if I got close into Turn 10 he would just pull away. And he made a mistake.

    "Ultimately the rules say when you go off you have to come back on in a safe manner and I was alongside and I had to back off to avoid a collision and I guess that's why they made the decision."

    Asked whether he would have preferred to race on without Vettel receiving a penalty, Hamilton said: "If you try to force a guy into a wall, are you saying you shouldn't get a penalty for that? I was going to crash with him, so I had to brake.

    "I was just driving the normal line so I shouldn't have been in that position of being close to crashing. It was his responsibility to avoid that, but it ended up being mine. So because of that I lost a chance of passing.

    "I won. Of course I want to do it on the track. Even after I knew he had a penalty, I was pushing and thinking maybe I would get another chance. But I was just sliding around and he was too quick on the track."

    Later, after watching the incident again, he said: "I watched the replays. It was obviously very close. What I can say is, if I was in the lead and made a mistake and went wide, I would probably have done the same thing, because it happened so quick and you are just trying to hold your position.

    "I would have tried to squeeze him, too, and that is ultimately what happened. My opinion on that has not shifted.

    "If you did not have that rule, I would have kept it lit and we would have crashed. One way or another it was going to go badly."
    Last edited by Brando; 10-06-2019 at 08:45 AM.
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    Rosberg agrees... :D



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gykAh22nbM

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  15. #115
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    https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...an-gp-decision

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  16. #116
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    Had Vettel left Hamilton room and Hamilton had been able to get past on the right, I can't help but feel that Vettel had enough pace advantage to have re-taken the lead on the back straight a lap or two later.

    The Ferrari had such an advantage out of the hairpin and along the straight that even though Hamilton had DRS on Vettel many times during the race, both before and after the incident, all it did was prevent Vettel from pulling away too much.

    Having re-watched the footage and read the stewards' justification, I can understand why they felt they needed to apply the penalty, but I'd rather they let it slide on this occasion.

    What this has done is set up the possibility of a Mercedes clean sweep of the season now. Canada and to a lesser extent Monza were the only races where Ferrari would have a significant straight-line advantage. The next few circuits are all going to play to Mercedes' strengths, especially now that they've sorted their slow-corner issues. I can see Hamilton emphatically winning the next three races on the bounce before anyone else (including Bottas) gets a look-in.

  17. #117
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    Frogland GP

    What an utter bore.

    What horrible track.
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  18. #118
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Screacher View Post
    What an utter bore.

    What horrible track.
    All this!! That & the run offs make my eyes hurt. Shame about Norris, wonder if DanRic will get a penalty, not that it’ll help Lando now.


    Glad I’d Sky+ it as watched on FF
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  19. #119
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    Dull. Dull. Dull.

    Those runoffs manage to make an F1 car at 200mph look slow.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    All this!! That & the run offs make my eyes hurt. Shame about Norris, wonder if DanRic will get a penalty, not that itíll help Lando now.


    Glad Iíd Sky+ it as watched on FF
    Yes he did, demoted to 11th from 7th.

    Same here, FF most of it as dull.

    Mercedes are in another league this year.
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  21. #121
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    I'm going to voice an unpopular opinion here: I'm loving the run of dull, predictable 1-stop HamiltonDomination races. In fact, I'm very much hoping Mercedes clean-sweep the entire season, sew up both championships before the flyaways at the end of the season, grind Ferrari into the ground and make Red Bull look like the sticky, desperate weasels that they are.

    It serves to cast a brighter spotlight on the inequality in the sport, the appallingly restrictive and increasingly stupid ruleset that the teams and drivers are forced to operate within, the role that intelligent track design has to play in ensuring that racing and overtaking is possible by STAYING ON THE ****ING TRACK DANNY YOU SMILING BELLEND.

    The more shit 1-stoppers we have where only Mercedes can make the Pirelli tyres work (probably because they tasked 500 of their 1,000-strong workforce to work non-stop all winter to simulate the Pirelli rubber in all its gripless detail), the more people will realise that Pirelli CANNOT make racing tyres worth a damn, no matter what brief they're given, and perhaps the powers that be will rethink handing them the tender for F1 tyres in the future.

    The more races we have where Hamilton thrashes Vettel, the more it's clear that Vettel is a good driver who got extraordinarily lucky at Red Bull, but he's not fit to be in the top 10 of all time, 4 World Championships be damned.

    The more mind-boggling boring races we have, the more chance there is of the sport imploding in a few years and something worthwhile rising out of the ashes, since it's becoming increasingly clear that Liberty aren't willing to make the sort of swingeing changes that F1 desperately needs. F1's much-vaunted 2021 ruleset is going to be a crap compromise which will do nothing to change the pecking order.

    And yet, I've still bought tickets to the British Grand Prix. Haven't been to a race there since 2005, but I want to experience the feeling of a Hamilton pole lap with a home crowd. The race will probably be a 1-stop chloroform job, but the atmosphere might just keep me awake.
    Last edited by Marty; 26-06-2019 at 08:30 AM.

  22. #122
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    I like your optimism

    Since when has F1 come to a conclusion based on the good of the sport and not diluted by everyone who has a vested interest in a part of it.

    Stop the Ferrari multi million annual payment, split the money equally, give them a set of regulation after consultation of course, but at the end of the day is simply HAS to be a "take it or leave it" approach by Liberty.


    I`ll be at Silverstone too, viewing from the Club Six hospitality suite between Maggots and Beckets
    Last edited by Nige; 26-06-2019 at 09:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty View Post
    Actually I'm with you on this. I also hope they do a clean sweep of all the races because it would be such an achievement.
    I can't really comment on the tyres or the technical side of it all as I've 'not bothered' at all with it this year but it is rather boring/predictable.

    I don't know what the answer is but weren't the new rules with 'wake' meant to make it better.... not that it can get any better as come on with all the intellect involved in f1 if there was a way forward they would find it. This might be what it's stagnated into. A parade determined on a whole by qualifying which generally equates to horsepower.

  24. #124
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    Marty, that made me laugh. I hear you.

    I'll also be at Silverstone. Club A grandstand. Cannot wait.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz711 View Post
    A parade determined on a whole by qualifying which generally equates to horsepower.
    No, that`s not right at all.

    The last 3 places on the French grid were 2 Williams and 1 Force India. Using the same engine as the Merc

    Canada, power circuit 4 of the slowest 5 were powered by the same engine as the Mercedes.

    If all the Merc powered cars were mid table or higher, regardless of chassis I'd agree with you but they aren't.

    Same with Ferrari who apparently have the most powerful engine now but Alfa running the same engine are usually between Williams and Force India (Racing Point I know...)

  26. #126
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    Exactly Nige.

    Ferrari donk is unreal. Lewis couldn't catch Seb in Canada down the massive straight with DRS active.

    Hulk was also impressed as he couldn't get passed the Alfa with his DRS wide open.

    Power does not rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nige View Post
    No, that`s not right at all.

    The last 3 places on the French grid were 2 Williams and 1 Force India. Using the same engine as the Merc

    Canada, power circuit 4 of the slowest 5 were powered by the same engine as the Mercedes.

    If all the Merc powered cars were mid table or higher, regardless of chassis I'd agree with you but they aren't.

    Same with Ferrari who apparently have the most powerful engine now but Alfa running the same engine are usually between Williams and Force India (Racing Point I know...)
    I'm sorry but I don't believe the customer teams will have the same hp as the 'works team' which dissolves the above theory. There'll always be something 'extra'. Take for ex having a lot of top end hp that you could argue Ferrari had but that's not necessarily good. I'll rephrase HP with best engine for that reason.
    Of course we will never actually know for certain.
    Interesting article on autosport about how LH went to the Paris meeting recently and wasn't impressed. Did he call F1 'boring' ? Certainly the suggestion.
    Last edited by Fitz711; 26-06-2019 at 10:12 AM.

  28. #128
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    Merc engines are all built the same. Every engine is identical. There is nothing special about the ones used by Mercedes F1, it's the same metal as the ones used by Williams or Racing Point.

    Mapping may be different but what's in the box is the same.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz711 View Post
    I'm sorry but I don't believe the customer teams will have the same hp as the 'works team' which dissolves the above theory.
    Apart from the fact every engine is identical. They all run the same hardware.

    All the manufacturers have confirmed this. Many times.

    Some use their own software but they aren`t `hobbled` by the manufacturers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stava View Post

    Mapping may be different but what's in the box is the same.
    I’ll take this- & that is where the difference is.
    I’m not saying one engine is a ohc & the other is a ohv.

    Anyway do they not run different oils & fuels ? At this level that’s going to make a difference.
    Last edited by Fitz711; 26-06-2019 at 10:35 AM.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nige View Post
    Apart from the fact every engine is identical. They all run the same hardware.

    All the manufacturers have confirmed this. Many times.

    Some use their own software but they aren`t `hobbled` by the manufacturers.
    I believe that McLaren used to make all the ECUs. Not sure it is still that way now.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz711 View Post
    Iíll take this- & that is where the difference is.
    Iím not saying one engine is a ohc & the other is a ohv.

    Anyway do they not run different oils & fuels ? At this level thatís going to make a difference.
    That I don't know. I'll ask though.

  33. #133
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    & this Ďchatí this morning shows whatís wrong with f1 to a non geek. Thereís more in our discussions than there has been on the racing spectacle. Sadly I doubt thisíll make the numbers balance.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by stava View Post
    I believe that McLaren used to make all the ECUs. Not sure it is still that way now.
    McLaren are still the suppliers for the standard ECU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz711 View Post
    Anyway do they not run different oils & fuels ? At this level thatís going to make a difference.
    Yes, some teams have different oil suppliers than the ones that the team that supplies the engine are using. A good example of this was McLaren in 2014 - they had the mighty Mercedes V6 hybrid unit, but they were using fuels and oils from Mobil 1 rather than the Petronas products that Mercedes were using and had optimised the engine around. This meant McLaren weren't able to get the best out of the engine in terms of power and fuel consumption.

    On the subjects of maps, I thought that Mercedes made the high-power modes available to all their customers these days, but I may be wrong on this. Not sure about Ferrari and Renault, but I suspect that same is true there too.

    Interestingly, a tale came out a couple of years ago about Romain Grosjean's third place for Lotus at Spa in 2015. The story goes that Grosjean was allowed a different engine mode during the closing stages of the race by Mercedes, who were supplying engines to Lotus at the time and didn't want Vettel to get a podium. This was a mode that Lotus hadn't had access to before, and it transformed the car such that Grosjean described it as driving completely differently to it had at any other time - much faster, better handling etc.

    Whether this sort of thing still happens, I don't know, but the advantage the big teams have is mostly rooted in aero - more of it, more efficiency, better correlation and so on. It's not often that raw power is a factor, though I was hugely impressed at the grunt of the Ferrari donk in Canada. As someone pointed out, Lewis couldn't get close out of the hairpin and down the back straight; his DRS was only just allowing him to keep up.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty View Post
    On the subjects of maps, I thought that Mercedes made the high-power modes available to all their customers these days,
    They do.

  36. #136
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    It would seem that all Merc engine users use the same oil and fuel too.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz711 View Post
    I’ll take this- & that is where the difference is.

    Anyway do they not run different oils & fuels ? At this level that’s going to make a difference.
    Nope.

    Earlier this year, the governing body reminded manufacturers that their customers must have access to the same software and power unit modes as works' engines, with no limitations.

    Customer teams must also receive the same fuel and oil specifications as works teams, unless they are commercially contracted to a specific supplier.
    From here

  38. #138
    Did anyone mention how boring this French F1 race was???
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  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimmer View Post
    Did anyone mention how boring this French F1 race was???
    All the races are boring now so says LH.
    Anyway I didnít know about the fuel parity & it seems neither did some others so there you go.

    Anyway I found the below article in it much more interesting than the French Gp race (had I watched it).

    https://f1i.com/gallery/274524-galle...rlfriends.html

  40. #140
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    F1 drivers have fit girlfriends, no way.

  41. #141
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    What a difference a week makes!

    Wow! Just wow!!
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  42. #142
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    Absolutely cracking race.

    Won't be surprised if verstappen gets a penalty though. Lap before he left room and leclerc out dragged him so he covered next time around. As usual from Max, it was on the robust side..but I can also see it could stand as it is.

    Merc really struggled with temps made for a close race.

  43. #143
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    Totally different race to last weekend!!

    Really enjoyed it

    You knew Max was going to come through at some point and it would get more physical the longer it took.
    Racing hard or penalty, not sure really.
    Where do you stop though, as Max said in the Brundle post race interview, if you don't allow it you may as well go home.
    From previous examples though I suspect Max will get a 5 second penalty.
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  44. #144
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    Cracking race
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  45. #145
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    Apparently fake news being spread... 5 second penalty for Max!
    Last edited by Ian H; 30-06-2019 at 04:55 PM.
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  46. #146
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    No further action on Verstappen/Leclerc. The stewards "did not consider that either driver was wholly or predominantly to blame for the incident. We consider that this is a racing incident".
    I could see it going either way, took them long enough to make a decision !

  47. #147
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    Ferrari obviously not paying enough these days for international assistance.

    No further action decision will cause as many arguments as last weeks!

    I agree though, need to see some good racing, if this was penalised I believe it would set a poor precedent.
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    Hondaís first victory since returning-very significant.

  49. #149
    Now what a contrast between races
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  50. #150
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    Watched the highlights, and there were actual highlights!
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