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Thread: Brexit -> Britain v. Ireland...

  1. #1

    Brexit -> Britain v. Ireland...

    All this talk of borders and whatnot...
    it's increasingly becoming an absolute fiasco!!

    Why can't we all just get along..??

  2. #2
    We're going to build a wall and we're going to make Ireland pay for it.

    It's going to be a beautiful thing.


  3. #3
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    Regular Neil Mac's Avatar
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    Jeremy Hunt says we back May or there is no Brexit. I'm therefore proposing a revolution.
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    I’m hoping that even our halfwit politicians don’t ruin all the good that we’ve seen in NI over the last 20 years.

    Surely they won’t? Surely?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory View Post
    All this talk of borders and whatnot...
    it's increasingly becoming an absolute fiasco!!

    Why can't we all just get along..??
    We could matey....if all the bigwigs (MPs, Royals, BIG business folk etc) were taken to a shitty island somewhere and left there. We'd then get on...for a while. But pretty soon a new world order would form and new top dogs would appear...Humans are totally flawed. God* cocked up (insert your own Idol/made up bollox)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave B View Post
    Humans are totally flawed.
    And they just won't stop breeding so there are far too many of them cramped into too little space, so they'll never truly be able to get along.

    This whole Brexit thing is just a little bump in the road to eventual, inevitable apocalypse of some kind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    This whole Brexit thing is just a little bump in the road to eventual, inevitable apocalypse of some kind.
    Amen son.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    This whole Brexit thing is just a little bump in the road to eventual, inevitable apocalypse of some kind.
    We're pretty much at the 'let them eat cake' and '100 days of games' stage in our society.

    The whole Brexit thing is likely to be derailed by the unsolvable issues from being integrated within the EU for the past 40 years. This is a relief.

    Whatever happens, I suspect dark days are coming.
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  10. #10
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    I just hope the mayhem holds off until I can buy a house and sort another visa....
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  11. #11
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    A tweet I saw earlier was quite apt.

    What it comes down to is...
    If you get your penis stuck in someone’s car door, you’re not in a great negotiating position. In fact, you should probably listen to the occupants very carefully, or they may choose to just... drive off.
    Takes a lot of skill to look this bad you know...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Roberts View Post
    A tweet I saw earlier was quite apt.

    What it comes down to is...
    If you get your penis stuck in someone’s car door, you’re not in a great negotiating position. In fact, you should probably listen to the occupants very carefully, or they may choose to just... drive off.
    Or, possibly, intentionally shooting yourself in the face just to annoy someone else.

    While I appreciate the Irish Border is quite a significant issue, and I sympathise with your proximity to the issue, Rory, this is an absolute disaster the is being actively pursued.

    If this was your favourite football club you, and your fellow fans, would be screaming blue murder and the manager would be sacked. If this was business then the head of operations (the PM) and the entire management team (the cabinet) would have had their marching orders from the shareholders and a new specialist team brought in to save the business.

    If your significant other had lied to you about their plans to such and extent you'd chuck them out of your house. YOU said there would be £350m to spend every week on the NHS. YOU said they needed us more than we needed them. YOU said they could "poke it" if they told us to repay any money but yet you fell over yourselves to thrust 50 BILLION at them. YOU said the negotiations would be one sided and in our favour but YOU have done nothing but screw them up and we haven't even started speaking about trade yet. And what about EASA, what about EAEC? What about the ECJ, oh God won't you think of the ECJ?

    Does anyone actually have any confidence whatsoever in the bungling idiots that are, as far as I can tell, jovially steering the ship into the iceberg? I sure as hell don't.

    I've written to my two local MPs and I've not has a response. So I'm going to send it again.

    What else can I do? Start a petition asking the commons to debate a motion of no confidence in the government to force an election?
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  13. #13
    News wire reporting that UK and RoI have agreed something on the border.

    Move along.

    Nothing to see here etc.

  14. #14
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    Oh I think there's going to be a lot more to see here yet.

    Even if ROI and UK 'agree something' by WTO rules you cannot have a porous border, so the wheels fall off at that point.

    Whole stupid thing is doomed.
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  15. #15
    Regular findlay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultegra View Post
    News wire reporting that UK and RoI have agreed something on the border.
    Sounding like NI will remain part of the EU single market (but don't tell anyone). ]

    Ah, because that's fair. In storms wee Jimmy Crankie with her idea of "if they can do it then so can we!"
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8090881.html

    Scotland voted to stay. As did London. But the DUP want NI to leave on the same terms as the rest of the UK so they're going to be mighty p!ssed that May has just shafted them.
    Last edited by findlay; 04-12-2017 at 02:44 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by findlay View Post
    Sounding like NI will remain part of the EU single market (but don't tell anyone). ]

    Ah, because that's fair. In storms wee Jimmy Crankie with her idea of "if they can do it then so can we!"
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8090881.html

    Scotland voted to stay. As did London. But the DUP want NI to leave on the same terms as the rest of the UK so they're going to be mighty p!ssed that May has just shafted them.
    Exactly! It's an utter mugger's buddle. With a bit of luck, the DUP will side against May and force another election, leaving Corbyn to ride in on his white charger and save the world. Oh, hang on......
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screacher View Post
    Oh, hang on......
    Yeah - there's going to be a lot of very disappointed Corbyn supporters at the point they realise he's been against the EU his whole political career and wants out way more than the hapless May does.
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    We normally do really well avoiding politics...now we're descending into a pit of despair so here's a picture of Noddys car to cheer you all up.

    If a man speaks his mind in a forest and no woman hears him...is he still wrong ?

  19. #19
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    When the sh*t hitting the fan is so obvious even most of NL can see it, things have to be REALLY bad.
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  21. #21
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    Where is Nigel on this? He loves a Brexit discussion.
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    Farage ? Didn't even know he was a member.
    If a man speaks his mind in a forest and no woman hears him...is he still wrong ?

  23. #23
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    This one is more garage than Farage
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Stace View Post
    Where is Nigel on this? He loves a Brexit discussion.

  26. #26
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    Well, that's Monday ruined.
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  27. #27
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    Going well for David What Reports? Davis today.
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  28. #28
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    I doubt that these emails are worded in a way that will encourage a response but I emailed my two local MPs on the 24th of November with this:
    Ross you are MP for the area where our business offices are based, Colin you are MP for Gordon, where I live.

    I write to you both as I feel I must address issues that will affect both my life in business and my personal life outwith work. I hope that my voice will be heard and I hope that you can both take it upon yourselves to do what is right for our country, not necessarily just follow your party line.

    My decision to write to you both follows the latest Budget where, much to my surprise, we have made no efforts to make our country attractive to new business and new industries – that despite a promise that it would prepare us for Brexit. This simply compounds the “at any cost” approach of potentially doubling our Brexit divorce bill to FORTY BILLION pounds. A number that dwarves into obscurity all of the financial promises Mr. Hammond made to “benefit” our country this week.

    Did we see a drop in corporation tax? No. Did we see any incentives for SMEs like our to grow, develop and expand? No. Our country is in need of intensive care and yet, what we were offered is merely a sticky plaster over some topical cracks. There was more thought given to punishing the emissions of diesel cars than there was to how we make our country a place to invest.

    The handling of the Brexit debacle is a shambolic disgrace. Our Prime Minister is apparently so deeply desperate to save face and try to show some small fragment of authority that it is deeply embarrassing to us who class ourselves as Proud Brits. We have a “Minister for Brexit” in Mr. Davis whose arrogance towards his opposite numbers in Europe is clear in every televised negotiating review. Then, compounding matters, we have a Foreign Secretary who is broadly comparable to Donald Trump in his lack of diplomacy. We are rapidly becoming the laughing stock and soon we will have an economy to match.

    Please explain to me why, after a campaign that was fuelled by despicable lies of our “post Brexit nirvana Great Britain”, we are allowing to be pushed through Brexit by the few and not the many? Has the (quote) “will of the people” changed? Are we allowed to U-turn from the cliff edge that we are being pushed over? We let the press call our Judges enemies of the people?

    These feelings are not, of course, without qualified experience. In business we bring equipment in from our friends in the Eurozone. Much of our equipment is sourced from Italy and, since the referendum we have seen the cost price, in GBP, of a standard espresso machine rise from around £1140.00 to over £1400.00 purely down to the backside falling out of our currency. The coffee we sell, traded globally as a commodity in USD, also increased dramatically throughout 2016 primarily due to our currency falling so hard. These are costs that we have had to pass onto our customers – increases that came around the same time as businesses across Scotland were hammered by rates increases. And, most embarrassingly, my colleagues in Europe cannot possibly understand why we are trying to leave. I am powerless to explain.

    At home we see the weekly cost of our shopping rising steadily. Little wonder that the latest news is that it will take well into the next decade for our real take-home wages to return to 2008 levels. All of this assuming our economy won’t implode if we don’t reverse from this catastrophic plan.

    I’m not alone in feeling this way and I could genuinely spend hours pointing at issues that are desperately in need of government support and assistance but I am extending a plea that we do not blindly stumble into our future. The rhetoric of “no deal is better than a bad deal” is simply not acceptable. No business should be run with that attitude and certainly no country should be run in that way. A deadline has now been set in law. What sort of ludicrous idea is that? What if we have not completed negotiations? Apparently we’re intentionally going to sink our ship in protest.

    All my life I have been a supporter of Conservative policies but, as things stand and the changes over the last 18 months I find nothing that I can agree with. The party has fallen fast and fallen hard. The party you represent is in turmoil. A cabinet divided. A front bench that has less public respect by the day.

    If you are brave, if you are genuinely in politics for the best reasons (ie to make life better for your constituents, their families, their children, their communities and their businesses) I would urge you to look at the turbulence in our country, the lack of strong leadership, the lack of a path that is in our best interests and please do something about it. Speak with your colleagues. Rock the boat. If you personally think I’m wrong and that, post Brexit, our world will be a happier, fairer and wealthier place for the many and not the few then I would welcome your qualified arguments by return.

    We cannot go on like this.




    I didn't get a reply... so I then sent this on Monday. I have yet to have even a sniff of a reply.



    Ross, Colin,

    I’d rather hoped that I may have been able to elicit a response from you both.

    Maybe I could ask that you both fulfil a couple of requests that I have.

    1. Please explain who, with the “divorce bill” to settle, and the reluctance that there will be from the EU to allow open access to the single market, who will be our biggest trading partner and what is the detail of the special relationship that we will benefit from?
    2. Please explain why the Brexit Reports that Mr. Davis said went into great detail are now apparently worthless of publishing? I wouldn’t buy a new car without having the facts in front of me and I’d like to review the reports, along with the rest of the public, to learn if this is the best decision for our country. Please urge your party and DexEU to publish the reports, in full, immediately. If I
    have to meet someone to receive a copy on a USB then I’ll happily do so.
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  29. #29
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    You need to identify who your actual MP is and email them, ensuring your name and address is clearly in the email. Unless you're emailing your MSP and MP?

    MPs ONLY have to respond to constituents. They SHOULD always respond to their constituents. If they don't, call their office and ask to attend a surgery and go have a meeting them.
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  30. #30
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    Addresses edited out

    But yes, I can see me banging on their doors very soon. I'm also going to be working a bit more closely with the local chamber of commerce who have a lobbying arm...
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  31. #31
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    One of Ross Thompson's researchers has just called me back to notify me that they have received my email but, due to the volume of emails he's being sent on the subject, it's taking longer than expected to reply. But he will reply. Poor chap that called sounded a little flustered. Bless.
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  32. #32
    You won't get a response from either by emailing them jointly.

  33. #33
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    Looks like he might from one of them . Eventually.

    Quote Originally Posted by findlay View Post
    One of Ross Thompson's researchers has just called me back to notify me that they have received my email but, due to the volume of emails he's being sent on the subject, it's taking longer than expected to reply. But he will reply. Poor chap that called sounded a little flustered. Bless.
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  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by findlay View Post
    I doubt that these emails are worded in a way that will encourage a response but I emailed my two local MPs on the 24th of November with this:

    [/FONT]


    I didn't get a reply... so I then sent this on Monday. I have yet to have even a sniff of a reply.


    What are you actually hoping to achieve?

    Go and do something worthwhile. You'd be better off going to campaign for a new political movement than write letters

    They don't care what you think, or the questions you're asking.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbit View Post
    What are you actually hoping to achieve?

    Go and do something worthwhile. You'd be better off going to campaign for a new political movement than write letters

    They don't care what you think, or the questions you're asking.
    Well I'm not going to sit on my hands. And if everyone took your stance the MPs would be happily sitting in their offices drinking tea and squeezing the intern's tits.

    But, if like me, you write to your MP even just to say that, in your opinion, that the management of Brexit is an absolute shambles, the maybe, just maybe you might be a very small cog in a very large wheel that, if Brexit is going to happen, might mean that it's as "soft" as possible and in the interests of the many and not the few. One email to your local MP won't make even a tiny bit of difference. A hundred won't. But maybe 10,000 will. If each MP had that many emails from constituents in despair things might be a little bit better then the utter catastrophe we're currently on course for. If you thought your boss was an incompetent moron you'd change jobs, wouldn't you?

    But hey, you'll still get your chance to have your say over who governs us... in 4 years time, if you're happy to wait for "democracy" to come round again in a General Election then that's fine, too. Nobody said it wasn't.
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  36. #36
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    Amen to that, although you forgot to add in 'watching legal p0rn' to that list.



    Me? I'm just looking to be an irritant to my MP and a reminder that he's doing things wrong.
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  37. #37
    Evening Standard wrote this yesterday:

    THERESA MAY was plunged into a growing Brexit crisis today as the Democratic Unionist Party flatly refused to sign off a deal with Ireland.

    The Prime Minister failed to make a breakthrough in telephone talks this morning with DUP leader Arlene Foster.

    Earlier Mrs Foster had warned she would “not be rushed” into an agreement on the Irish border issue. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn claimed in the Commons that the 10 DUP MPs who prop up Mrs May’s minority government were “ruling the roost” and the “tail really is wagging the dog”.

    The Irish government heaped further embarrassment on Mrs May by revealing that the phrase at the heart of the row — “continued regulatory alignment” — had been agreed between the Prime Minister and her Irish counterpart, Leo Varadkar, before it was leaked on Monday, causing uproar within the DUP, who had been kept in the dark.

    With the deadline fast approaching for a breakthrough well before next week’s crucial summit of European Union leaders, Mrs May was confronted by growing challenges on the back of the Northern Ireland dispute.

    The Tory civil war over Brexit deepened as MPs said the prospect of continued “alignment” between the UK and EU opened the way for the UK to stay inside the world’s biggest trade bloc, the single market.

    Brexit Secretary David Davis admitted Brexit would provoke a “paradigm change” for the economy, comparable with the way the 2008 crash rendered economic models obsolete.

    MPs called on Mr Davis to resign for allegedly misleading Parliament — and moves were afoot to have him censured for failing to give a Select Committee official papers on studies into the impact of Brexit on the economy.

    A bid to do a deal with Brussels was scuppered on Monday when the DUP, Northern Ireland’s largest party, vetoed the wording of “regulatory alignment”, fearing it would split the province from mainland UK.

    The call between Mrs May and Mrs Foster was postponed yesterday to allow more time for private talks, but sources said the leaders failed to narrow the gap between them and “technical” discussions would have to continue.

    The Irish government said it would not change the wording but was willing to add some words to clarify. It said it had “concrete evidence of an agreement between the Taoiseach and Prime Minister” and added: “We absolutely feel we can’t budge one inch.”

    Mrs Foster has said her party was only shown the proposed text regarding the Irish border late on Monday morning, as Mrs May was sitting down to lunch in Brussels with European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker.

    At a Nato summit in Brussels, Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson appealed to all sides to shelve decisions on the border issue until trade talks were under way.

    “The best way to sort it out is to get on to the second phase of the negotiations, where all these difficult issues can be solved,” he said.

    Today Mr Davis told the Brexit select committee that the Government has made no formal assessment of the likely impact of Brexit on different sectors of the UK economy. Members said he had contradicted earlier evidence.

    Lib Dem committee member Wera Hobhouse said: “David Davis has been misleading parliament from the start.” Giving evidence, Mr Davis said Brexit would be of the “order of magnitude” of the 2008 crash. He said: “I’m not a fan of economic models because they have all proven wrong. When you have a paradigm change — as happened in 2008 with the financial crisis — all the models were wrong.”

    Tories opposed to a hard Brexit said Mrs May’s policy of “regulatory alignment” was the basis for a Norway-style trade deal within the European single market of 500 million customers.

    John Stevenson, Tory MP for Carlisle, said there was “a lot of support” in Parliament for being members of the European Free Trade Association, which includes Iceland, Norway and Switzerland. Nicky Morgan, who chairs the Treasury Select Committee, said: “There cannot be a separate deal for part of the UK.” But Tory Right-winger Nigel Evans branded the idea a “Hotel California solution — where you can check out but never leave the EU”.

    AT WHAT point does Theresa May, like Basil Fawlty on his disastrous gourmet night, lift the cloche to reveal an unexpected trifle, and concede: “Ah, duck’s off. Sorry”? How bold and statesmanlike it would be for the Prime Minister to acknowledge in advance of next week’s European Council summit in Brussels that the talks paving the way to Britain’s departure from the EU in March 2019 are simply not working, and to seek, as Article 50 explicitly allows, an extension of the (absurdly short) two-year talks process. Alas, for the rest of us, there is no prospect of this whatsoever. The weaker she becomes, the more stubborn she gets.

    It is true that the extrication of this country from the EU was always going to be structurally and intrinsically nightmarish. But the PM bears special responsibility for the present depth of the nightmare, of which the row over the Irish border is pitilessly symbolic.

    She is diplomatically constrained by her early (and unnecessary) insistence that Brexit axiomatically entailed withdrawal from all its major institutions . Even as, by stages, her Cabinet colleagues have been forced to concede that, in practice, the European Court of Justice will retain a measure of jurisdiction in this country’s affairs, that the new immigration rules will require all manner of sectoral exemptions, and that, at least during the transition period, Britain will remain, in practice if not in law, part of the EU. The robustnesss of her rhetoric has never been matched by political authority or by a recognition of institutional, commercial and infrastructural reality.

    Having failed spectacularly in the general election to secure a personal mandate to negotiate on her own terms and with a degree of flexibility, her only instruction from the people remains last year’s referendum result. This means she is ever more embarrassed by the inevitable complexity of talks that the British people were told by the Brexiteers would be swift and straightforward.

    Had May achieved a decent Commons majority, she would no longer be captive to the crude mendacities of last year’s Leave campaign. Instead, she remains hostage to the Brexiteers within her own Cabinet — and, as we have seen this week, comprehensively limited by her ghastly, taxpayer-subsidised deal with the Democratic Unionist Party.

    Those around the PM complain that the DUP is behaving unreasonably. But that is what the DUP does: it is practi- cally the party’s mission statement. The politicians of Northern Ireland are expert in the arts of power-sharing, political pressure and brinkmanship. When May threw in her lot with the DUP’s 10 MPs, she essentially handcuffed her party’s fortunes and her own to the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster.

    What beggars belief is that the Government should have prepared so shoddily for the PM’s talks this week with the European President JeanClaude Juncker. It has long been apparent that the Irish border would be a fundamental question in these negotiations, encompassing at least three highly sensitive issues: the EU’s border with this country; Northern Ireland’s border with the British mainland; and — by extension — the inter-relationship of the UK’s constituent parts.

    As mindnumbingly technical as the argument may seem — witness all the casuistry over the terms “divergence” and “alignment” — the stakes are simple. Will Northern Ireland acquire a new semi-detached status within the UK? Will the border with the EU effectively be the Irish Sea rather than the 310 miles from Lough Foyle to Carlingford Lough? Does the logic of the situation not bring Irish unity a step closer?

    It was always clear that Brexit would force uncomfortable discussions about the precise relationship between Northern Ireland and the Republic. As long as the UK and Éire were both members of the EU, the nuances of the cross-border relationship that stretches back to the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985 were to some extent masked by “constructive ambiguity”. But hard questions were bound to be posed by the transformation of the UK’s relationship with the rest of Europe.

    It was a first principle of the peace talks launched by John Major and cemented by Tony Blair in the Good Friday Agreement that there should be no surprises, so that the parties could converge in practice, while saving face in the eyes of their respective supporters. Neither Prime Minister would have allowed Arlene Foster, the leader of the DUP, to be embarrassed — or present herself as embarrassed — by the text of the proposed deal on the border. All contingencies would have been discussed beforehand, officially and in private. May’s discomfiture on Monday — as she was forced to break off from lunch with Juncker to speak on the phone to Foster — betrayed astonishing amateurism.

    In response to the ensuing bedlam, David Davis, the Brexit Secretary, insisted yesterday that any deal on “regulatory alignment” would apply to the whole UK rather than to Northern Ireland alone. This, of course, sent Tory Brexiteers into orbit, as it seemed to suggest the continued application of single market and customs union rules to a nation supposedly “taking back control” and eagerly anticipating its emancipation from the alleged tyranny of Brussels. Iain Duncan Smith spoke for this wing of the Conservative Party yesterday when he said that the EU needed to “back off ” lest the UK walk away from the table.

    It is ominous indeed for May that the DUP is now making common cause so openly with her most fractious backbenchers. Though she might conceivably cobble together a shaky interim deal on the Irish border before next week’s summit, her position — both in the talks, and at home — has never been weaker. The duck is indeed off. But the duck in question is her premiership.
    Last edited by ultegra; 07-12-2017 at 02:40 PM.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by findlay View Post
    Well I'm not going to sit on my hands. And if everyone took your stance the MPs would be happily sitting in their offices drinking tea and squeezing the intern's tits.
    What, actively mobilising if they thought they had genuine, valid expertise on the subject?

    But, if like me, you write to your MP even just to say that, in your opinion, that the management of Brexit is an absolute shambles
    Oh right, because you know this for a fact?

    Or are you going by the snippets the media get wind of, to sell newspapers?

    Hmm...

    if Brexit is going to happen, might mean that it's as "soft" as possible
    Why is that the right answer?

    Don't reply - because you don't know. Nobody does. Which is the point I'm making. "Soft" doesn't even mean anything, other than confirm ignorance of those that use the term.


    ...and in the interests of the many and not the few... blah blah blah
    Load of unsubstantiated bollocks.

    This is why religion is 'a thing' - people are allowed to fill gaps with what they think they know, rather than saying, "yeah i don't know - and don't want to dedicate my life to trying to find out"

    Either know - and I mean *really* know, not armchair politics

    Or accept you don't know.

  39. #39
    Regular Diamond Hell's Avatar
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    Wow.

    You won, it's about time you got over discovering what you won wasn't something shiny and lovely, but a turd rolled in glitter.

    Still at least we've got some ace negotiators in the government who will ensure we're not tied into paying the commitments we already made for years whilst canning any say we have in the regulations of the UK's largest export market.

    Thank heavens we have an economy that's 80% based on manufacturing, not 80% services, with a government that's staunchly supported the manufacturing sector for decades instead of the financial services sector that can just leave the country without much impact on it, but huge impact on the country it leaves.

    Still at least the UK economy isn't saddled with the largest government debt since the late 1960s, so we can forge ahead with a government spending spree to invest out out of any depression we might be about to fall into.

    Best news is that consumer debt is nice and low, so increasing interest rates won't cripple consumer spending to compound the economic depression.

    See, everything is going to work out fine, just like that nice Nigel chap said. Thank heavens he has a chunky MEP pension to fall back on. PHEW!
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  40. #40
    Regular findlay's Avatar
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    Hobbit, whether I'm right or wrong in any claims, assumptions or statements is utterly irrelevant. I'm quite entitled to approach my MP to put across my concerns as you are to write to them and tell them what a sterling job they're making of things so far. I mean, they always said that the negotiations would be completely straightforward and that we wouldn't have to pay Europe a penny.

    So I'm going by the headline grabbing stuff published by the leftie press. Obviously.

    Meanwhile those who voted leave because they were seeing too many brown people, wanted that money for the NHS, thought that the open borders were an open invitation to terrorists, tens of thousands of terrorists, to pour across our borders and to "take back control" were not influenced by any press, or "Facebook news". Oh no.

    Meanwhile, in Alabama, let's hear from those people who still thought it was OK to vote for Roy Moore.
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  41. #41
    Regular Darren Langeveld's Avatar
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    Big woo
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  42. #42
    Regular findlay's Avatar
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    And...

    "back then there'd be a lot of mommas and daddies that would be thrilled for their 14 year old daughter to be getting hit on by a district attorney"
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  43. #43
    Regular Darren Langeveld's Avatar
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    It was a different time.
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  44. #44
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    The reason we dont have ace negotiators is quite simple.

    Nobody with any credibility or sense would have anything to do with the Brexit sh1tshow. A strange Tory vanity project gone horrifically wrong. And we'll all pay the price. All of us.
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  45. #45
    Regular findlay's Avatar
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    And Hobbit, isn’t an MP there to represent the interests of the public? So, say that, like me, you have a conservative MP. And say that, for argument’s sake their constituents voted, by a margin of 10%, to remain in the EU. Do they tow the party line or do they work on behalf of the majority of their constituents? Quite the dilemma, no?
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  46. #46
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    Don't feed him Findlay. He's full of shite
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