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Thread: V8 Mincer - summer project

  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peach-uk View Post
    Quoting this "I'm not interested in power" comment for future reference....
    I say that with the luxury of knowing it should do 310bhp/320lb ft out of the box so even losing 4% wouldn’t be a great loss. Besides, if it did ever feel pedestrian, ITBs and a remap would give 400+bhp so I think I’ll be ok!!
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  2. #352
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    Already backtracking I see...

  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Yes it's just a mock up however have you seen that video of the flattened manifold pipes?
    They continued to squash it down and road tested it at various stages and eventually squashed it to next to nothing and it lost 6bhp.
    In the knowledge that this is going to be mostly for the road with the odd track day, maximum power is not the primary objective. I'm more interest in how the power is delivered which is presumably more to do with the mapping?
    Yeah, I wouldn’t worry at all. Ease of creation and routing must be #1 right now.

    If you want that extra juice back later, you can spunk a few grand on some crazy manifolds.

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peach-uk View Post
    Already backtracking I see...
    Good point well presented
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  5. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsaunders View Post
    Yeah, I wouldn’t worry at all. Ease of creation and routing must be #1 right now.

    If you want that extra juice back later, you can spunk a few grand on some crazy manifolds.
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  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    I'm more interest in how the power is delivered which is presumably more to do with the mapping?
    Not true - the length of the headers will have a big impact on the characteristics of how the engine runs and delivers its power. A squashed manifold where one runner is affected will suffer far less than a manifold where you have a huge imbalance in the length of the initial runners AND where you're stuffing three lots of gas into the fourth pipe at the point where the gas is VERY hot.

    With the sample manifold you're trashing the effect exhaust pulse scavenging has on getting rid of the gases and a lot of other things.

    I would be aiming for an equal length set of headers (ideally with longer primaries), with one, or two of them ovalised to get past stuff, instead of the abomination in the picture.
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  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Hell View Post
    Not true - the length of the headers will have a big impact on the characteristics of how the engine runs and delivers its power. A squashed manifold where one runner is affected will suffer far less than a manifold where you have a huge imbalance in the length of the initial runners AND where you're stuffing three lots of gas into the fourth pipe at the point where the gas is VERY hot.

    With the sample manifold you're trashing the effect exhaust pulse scmavenging has on getting rid of the gases and a lot of other things.

    I would be aiming for an equal length set of headers (ideally with longer primaries), with one, or two of them ovalised to get past stuff, instead of the abomination in the picture.

    All the above (tuning headers) is for a race engine with a power band. All this talk of running HOT is just scaremongering and really most naughty.

    It's a V8- you could take a plug out & not really notice.

    Let's take a look at a std manifold, it's not a tuned length, bunch of bananas but is a 'log' where some runners are less than others.

    This isn't about scavenging each cylinder of charge but getting past the steering column.
    See the post about losing 6bhp on a squashed manifold.


    I'm just so glad this is working.
    Last edited by Fitz711; 08-10-2017 at 10:14 PM.

  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz711 View Post
    All the above (tuning headers) is for a race engine with a power band. All this talk of running HOT is just scaremongering and really most naughty.

    It's a V8- you could take a plug out & not really notice.

    Let's take a look at a std manifold, it's not a tuned length, bunch of bananas but is a 'log' where some runners are less than others.

    This isn't about scavenging each cylinder of charge but getting past the steering column.
    See the post about losing 6bhp on a squashed manifold.


    I'm just so glad this is working.
    Agree with Fitz. The design is very similar to stock mercedes m113 manifold. Increasing the pipe diameter just after the join point where the three meet the fourth would be a good idea if there is room.
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  9. #359
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    Could be ceramic coated too to reduce temps.
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    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=m1...nOZri9WULl9MM:

    Manifold looks no worse than the Mercedes 55 AMG ones, they're good for 350bhp+

  11. #361
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    I'm pleased this thread is causing debate if nothing else!

    As previously stated, my spannering skills are so limited that I have to rely on others.
    No it's not ideal nor pretty (although the above was just a mock up) however a solution has been found which has stumped two previous engineers. This won't be a highly tuned race engine so absolute specific output is not relevant, however after three years you'll appreciate that I just want the bloody thing to work!
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  12. #362

    Wink

    It will be ok
    SILVIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHH S14!!!!!!

  13. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    however after three years you'll appreciate that I just want the bloody thing to work!
    After three years, I'd want it to be done right
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  14. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Hell View Post
    After three years, I'd want it to be done right
    Pedant!
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  15. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Pedant!
    Oh no, a real pedant would want it to be done "correctly".
    "Fortunately, I'd taken a spare Gearbox, 5th gear cog (hidden), Turbo, Actuator, Banjo Connector, Steering Rack, Driveshafts, ECU, 57-51mm silicone reducing elbow and a Copper Banjo Washer." - Nige

  16. #366
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    Probably a question you dont want to answer, but will the total build cost now exceed the cost of a full FM kit and LS engine?
    Back in clutter

  17. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by pye21 View Post
    Probably a question you dont want to answer, but will the total build cost now exceed the cost of a full FM kit and LS engine?
    No Ian but it will be an £11k project......... however think what I could have bought instead I'm still sone way cheaper than a decent engined Caterham.
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  18. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Mac View Post
    Oh no, a real pedant would want it to be done "correctly".
    .... or even completed correctly
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  20. #370
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    Excellent

    Not quite the standard looking sleeper/Q car look I'm after. It I bet it's quick!!
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  21. #371
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    Dropped in to see the car on the way home from work last night.
    Mixed news but progress being made!

    Perhaps unsurprisingly the chassis legs have rusted so rather than try to patch them up I’ve decided to fit new ones. It’s a relatively good time to do it project wise but now they’ve taken out the whole front end/drivetrain/axle etc I might take the opportunity to refresh everything we can now easily access! Replace or sandblast and powder coat wishbones, replace bushes etc.
    V8 MX5 pics by Tony Eyles, on Flickr

    Other than that it’s all good news, they’ve completed the rear end by fettling and installing the custom prop, they’ve fabricated a new air intake pipe and hope to have it all running before Christmas.
    V8 MX5 pics by Tony Eyles, on Flickr
    I need to source a cat back 2.5” exhaust and a couple of ancillaries that got lost between Bromley, Winchester and here, but otherwise it’s cracking on
    Last edited by Tony; 02-12-2017 at 12:45 PM.
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  22. #372
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    I watch some you tube fella called Taylor Drifts if you have not heard of him. He has a turbo'd miata and is now doing a LS swap and aiming for under 10,000 dollars. Some of the kit stuff he has is great and hes doing a in depth build diary on it. Might be worth a watch
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  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    they’ve fabricated a new air intake pipe and hope to have it all running before Christmas.
    Have you seriously again forgotten to ask 'which Christmas?' when a garage tells you this?
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  24. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Hell View Post
    Have you seriously again forgotten to ask 'which Christmas?' when a garage tells you this?

  25. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Hell View Post
    Have you seriously again forgotten to ask 'which Christmas?' when a garage tells you this?
    F*ck it - when will I ever learn??
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  26. #376
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    Getting closer..... popped in today to drop off a part and found they’d fabbed more parts
    They had to delete the ppf to make space to run the exhaust. So they used the opportunity to combine the ppf support with a full rear end brace taking in both rear subframe mounts and two further forward in the floor. Should stiffen things up nicely!

    Mx5 bits by Tony Eyles, on Flickr

    The other problem they’ve had to work around was the clutch operation. The mx5 master cylinder wasn't working, so they replaced that, but despite the new one working properly, they weren’t getting enough throw on the slave cylinder to fully disengage the clutch - probably a result of the gearbox adapter plate. The BMW slave cylinder is a larger piston than the original mx5 one but won’t fit in the already cramped engine bay!

    They solved the issue by making an adapted clutch slave push rod made from two different rods, machined on the lathe then tig welded together. This combined with a plasma cut bracket to hold the slave cylinder to the gearbox gave a matched master and slave cylinder that not only works, but also fits in the engine bay without fouling the engine!

    Mx5 bits by Tony Eyles, on Flickr

    Mx5 bits by Tony Eyles, on Flickr

    Last few engineering bits to complete then it’s finish off the wiring, tune and done..........
    Last edited by Tony; 25-01-2018 at 11:41 AM.
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  27. #377
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    Could you make the pics bigger, couldn't quite see them

    Great to see it moving along with some actual pace now

    Ready for Bedford then??
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  28. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian H View Post
    Could you make the pics bigger, couldn't quite see them
    Ready for Bedford then??
    That’s how they come from Flickr

    Potentially......... if it’s just the week before I’m not sure track work is the best way to bed it in but it will certainly be at Goodwood
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  29. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    That’s how they come from Flickr

    Potentially......... if it’s just the week before I’m not sure track work is the best way to bed it in but it will certainly be at Goodwood
    You posting via a PC or smartphone?
    Can use 'shares' App on smartphone and select different size pics to post
    Thought you could also do different sizes from Flikr via a PC as well?

    What Goodwood day are you doing, MM?
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  30. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian H View Post
    You posting via a PC or smartphone?
    Can use 'shares' App on smartphone and select different size pics to post
    Thought you could also do different sizes from Flikr via a PC as well?

    What Goodwood day are you doing, MM?
    iPad. Ok that’s

    Sorry, meant Thruxton but may well do the MM day at Goodwood but obviously as a volunteer. A shitbox nailed together in someone’s shed won’t qualify for that one!!
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  31. #381
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    Great news Some serious work going on there!
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  32. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    iPad. Ok that’s

    Sorry, meant Thruxton but may well do the MM day at Goodwood but obviously as a volunteer. A shitbox nailed together in someone’s shed won’t qualify for that one!!
    Try this - Flickr Shares
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  33. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    slave cylinder that not only works, but also fits in the engine bay without fowling the engine!
    Always embarrassing when that happens. Feathers everywhere!

    Looking good, Tony
    "Fortunately, I'd taken a spare Gearbox, 5th gear cog (hidden), Turbo, Actuator, Banjo Connector, Steering Rack, Driveshafts, ECU, 57-51mm silicone reducing elbow and a Copper Banjo Washer." - Nige

  34. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Mac View Post
    Always embarrassing when that happens. Feathers everywhere!

    Looking good, Tony

    I had cut and pasted the engineers text!!!
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  35. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post

    I had cut and pasted the engineers text!!!
    Never trust the spelling of an Engineer. If the spelling and grammar are perfect, don't trust his workmanship
    "Fortunately, I'd taken a spare Gearbox, 5th gear cog (hidden), Turbo, Actuator, Banjo Connector, Steering Rack, Driveshafts, ECU, 57-51mm silicone reducing elbow and a Copper Banjo Washer." - Nige

  36. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Mac View Post
    Never trust the spelling of an Engineer. If the spelling and grammar are perfect, don't trust his workmanship
    Sage advice for life!!
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  37. #387
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    Three engineers are driving down the road when their car breaks down.
    The Electrical engineer says "must be the coil or the points, there's probably no spark".
    The Chemical engineer says "must be fuel starvation or poor atomisation".
    The IT engineer says "maybe if we all get out and then we all get back in again.........
    If a man speaks his mind in a forest and no woman hears him...is he still wrong ?

  38. #388
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    It's fantastic this is coming along now.
    I probably speak for others when I say we were all getting frustrated with you.

  39. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz711 View Post
    It's fantastic this is coming along now.
    I probably speak for others when I say we were all getting frustrated with you.
    Frustrated with me or for me??!!
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  40. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Frustrated with me or for me??!!
    Well maybe a bit of both

  41. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz711 View Post
    Well maybe a bit of both
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  42. #392
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    Had an amusing text conversation with the garage this morning.

    Long story short they were moving cars around and didn’t realise the bonnet wasn’t latched down. The wind gusted at just the wrong moment and flipped the bonnet back and bent the corners and cracked the screen.......
    So they’ve cut the screen out, attended to the rust which was starting to manifest in the header rail and repainted the screen surround so the new screen bonds in securely and bonded in a brand new screen. He picked up a replacement bonnet along with hinges in case they are also bent and will give it a coat of paint!
    Obviously all F.O.C. and the saving grace is it gave the opportunity to sort out some corrosion round the screen.

    He was really really apologetic but it’s done me a huge favour - I thought it was funny!!

    Anyway they’ve ordered a few more fittings for the remote oil filter arrangement and that should be the last thing needed before putting fluids in. So it’s just a section of exhaust to fabricate that takes the two down pipes from the manifolds into one to join the stainless mx5 system. Then we should be trying to fire it up! It’s nearly there.......
    Last edited by Tony; 13-02-2018 at 11:36 PM.
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  43. #393
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    That's a good result then lol

    Guess it won't be at Bedford on Saturday.

    Must be excited to finally get there
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  44. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Long story short they were moving cars around and didn’t realise the bonnet wasn’t latched down. The wind gusted at just the wrong moment and flipped the bonnet back and bent the corners and cracked the screen.......
    So they’ve cut the screen out, attended to the rust which was starting to manifest in the header rail and repainted the screen surround so the new screen bonds in securely and bonded in a brand new screen. He picked up a replacement bonnet along with hinges in case they are also bent and will give it a coat of paint!
    Obviously all F.O.C. and the saving grace is it gave the opportunity to sort out some corrosion round the screen.

    He was really really apologetic but it’s done me a huge favour - I thought it was funny!!
    .
    I'm sure Ian had a very similar story with the Golf but with a different ending

    Glad it's coming an end Mr T
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  45. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floyd View Post
    I'm sure Ian had a very similar story with the Golf but with a different ending
    Certainly did, due to that c@nt at Nürburg Motorsport!

    GVK drove off down the road and cockwomble hadn't secured the bonnet pins. Poor Gary ended up with the bonnet flipping and smashing the screen.... the day before i arrived for a weeks holiday
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  46. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian H View Post
    Certainly did, due to that c@nt at Nürburg Motorsport!

    GVK drove off down the road and cockwomble hadn't secured the bonnet pins. Poor Gary ended up with the bonnet flipping and smashing the screen.... the day before i arrived for a weeks holiday
    And presumably no come back as it’s a driver’s responsibility to should check the vehicle is ready blah blah?

    Had a similar and potentially disastrous situation a few years back when a mate was moving house and I agreed to store his trailer in my field for a few weeks. His wife had put the trailer on the tow hitch and I hadn’t checked it........
    Long story short the first thing I knew was a loud bang heralded the safety cord snapping and the trailer receding in the rear view mirror as it rolled back down the steep hill in the next village. It could have been horrific - primary school nearby with pavement on one side of the road, cars parked on the other........... luckily it swung into a driveway and was stopped by a proper Cornish granite wall so only damaged the trailer and a five bar gate. However, if it had run someone over, or worse, I could potentially have ended up in prison for negligence.
    Last edited by Tony; 15-02-2018 at 07:48 AM.
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  47. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    And presumably no come back as a driver should check the vehicle is ready blah blah?
    He tried but I was having none of that bullshit as he was the last one to check it.
    He paid to have the car delivered back to UK with a replacement bonnet fitted and covered the excess on windscreen replacement.
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