PDA

View Full Version : Prawns July Ring Trip Report - an expensive one.



Prawn
14-07-2012, 09:07 AM
So, I'm home, the dust has settled, and I have the weekend to enjoy getting back to normality before returning to work on Tuesday to face almost certain chaos.

Sounds like time to write a trip report then!

This trip started off in a pretty random way. I had no intention of going to the ring at this time at all.

Chatting to Dad on the phone a few weeks ago, on a miserable and rainy day in england, Dad mentioned that he and Mum were spending 2 nights in Nurburg on their way back from their adventures in the Polo, I jokingly said I was half tempted to come out and join them because of all the misery back in England, and an idea was formed!

Later that day I mentioned the idea in passing to Pierre, who jumped at the idea. Bugger it, lets go! So a ferry was booked, and we jumped online and booked the cheapest hotel we couild find, wanting to keep costs as low as possible.

As it was unplanned, I didn't have any road legal track tyres here to use for the trip, so Pierre very kindly went to Mum and Dads to pick up some A048's from our storage pile. He fitted them onto his S3 rims for us to use on the trip:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/b6833d66.jpg

I stocked up with Energy drink, partly to keep us going, and partly because it's become a tradition to take a crate over for the boys at Rent 4 Ring after Ralph found a can in my boot about 3 years ago and decided he liked it!

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/1f9ac3c4.jpg

A check list was written:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/715acbe3.jpg

Pierre arrived on Sunday afternoon, and also bought up a new steering wheel I'd bought from Jardo to replace my old worn one. He got to work fitting that whilst I changed the wheels:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/dc67d136.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/d02bb83f.jpg

And everything was packed, reasonably light packing for us this time. We tend to end up taking the kitchen sink and everything else when Dad travels with us!

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/64d4ae46.jpg

The wheels were fitted:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/3a0d1121.jpg

And she's ready to go:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/5c1b96df.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/7fb25aca.jpg

simonsaunders
14-07-2012, 09:26 AM
Pierre looks tiny in that pic? Is he really small. Or is the A3 bigger than I thought? :chin:

texas2201
14-07-2012, 09:48 AM
Why was it expensive? did something go wrong?

Prawn
14-07-2012, 09:49 AM
Early to bed on Sunday night, and we got up at 1am, ready to leave at 0130 to catch the 4am Ferry. This seemed like a great idea when we booked it, but at 1am, it didn't seem so great!

We set off, and arrived at Dover at 03:15 in Good spirits.

Pierre decided to Model Andys Fez for a photo, we thought that as Andy couldn't join is, we'd at least take his hat along (even if it is a bloody stupid hat)

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/64e4e5ee.jpg

All loaded up with the usual hassle of going on the lower deck, and it was time for breakfast:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/319dd6a9.jpg

No more pics for a while, you all know what the journey is like in a track car. long, Loud, and bumpy!

We arrived in Nurburg at 1pm, and headed over to Rent 4 Ring to drop off our kit before checking into our Hotel that evening. The guys were as friendly as ever, and let us store our bags and spare wheels out the back of the garage. With the car unloaded, we headed down to the carpark and I bought a 4 lap ticket.

We set out on a sighting lap, but annoyingly the car seemed to develope a bit of a missfire under boost. We cruised around the lap just to get a feel for things again, and headed back down to Rent 4 Ring to borrow a wire brush and some WD40.

Plugs cleaned up, all connections sprayed, and she fired up and ran perfectly again.

We drove to Adeneau and ordered some new plugs and a coilpack from the motor factors, to arrive in the morning.

Sadly the track was again closed due to a nasty accident involving a biker, so we grabbed our stuff from R4R and headed to the hotel to check in at 4pm. By this time Mum and dad had arrived, so we all headed there together:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/4cb106af.jpg

We headed back down to the track at 6pm, and I took my Mum out for her first passenger lap of the Ring, and she absolutely loved it! it was a stupidly busy lap with car after car of traffic, so a bit hairy for her first ever lap out!

Towards the end of the lap, my brakes started to loose a bit of bite. I knew the pads were getting low ish, but didn't think they'd have worn out already. We decided to call it a day on Monday, as it was just too busy to go out again, so we headed back to the hotel to get changed, then went to Pinnochios for some food and a few beers.

Next morning I got up early and changed the pads over for some Part worn Carbotech XP8's I had:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/c0bbe19f.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/50822188.jpg

Then after breakfast we headed to Adeneau to pick up the new plugs and coil pack, stopping on the way to take a photo whilst it was quiet!

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/3e0de1f0.jpg

New parts collected, we headed back to the hotel to fit them:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/ab5ca554.jpg

Please note the amazing tin foil heat shielding added on Monday to eliminate the possibility of coilpack wiring over heating:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/b87bd84c.jpg

Annoyingly, despite being the right part number (BP7ES) and thread size, the hex on the plugs was too big to fit into my head, so we had to abandon that idea, and just fitted the new coil pack.

On the way to Adeneau the brake pedal felt a tad low, so we decided to bleed the brakes whilst we had a bit of spare time. All went well until it came to the master cylinder:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/bf8c4ffa.jpg

BOLLOCKS!!!!

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/b4ffc757.jpg

The bloody nipple snapped off! Oh well, the pedal feel was good, and it was still sealed. I could deal with that back in the UK.

So, all set for some more laps:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/8bd17ec4.jpg

We headed down to Brunchen to watch the trackday going on for a while. I got some very strange looks when I parked the car like this and it decided to pop onto 3 wheels:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/bbd98c33.jpg

Prawn
14-07-2012, 09:52 AM
Pierre looks tiny in that pic? Is he really small. Or is the A3 bigger than I thought? :chin:

I think it's just the seating position Si, Dad and I are both 6ft +, with long bodies and short legs proportionally, so my seats are VERY low in the car to keep our heads away from the cage.


Why was it expensive? did something go wrong?

You could say that :wink:

I'll get to that bit in a moment

mr rooney
14-07-2012, 10:23 AM
Great report so far, keep it coming! I was heading home on monday 9th july so must of just missed you!

Prawn
14-07-2012, 10:34 AM
After some lunch, we headed down to the track to get a few laps in. it had been raining in the afternoon, but the sun was out, and it was drying out very fast. By the time we got on track just after half 5, it was as good as dry.

I setup Harrys Lap timer on the phone for a bit of fun, and slung it in the windscreen on a phone mount. More excited about the new data overlays it can now do rather than timing laps, I love analysing the GPS data and comparing Vmax and Vmin at different places between me and Dad.
First lap out on a fairly busy but drying track, and the car was going really well. No miss fire any more, and even on full boost (18psi) it was pulling well. The difference in speed compared to my last trip with 200bhp was unreal, I found myself having to relearn things a bit, as braking points have all moved due to the higher entry speeds.
I was particularly happy with passing this GT3 through Hatzenbach, even if he wasn't trying:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/90cd0a76.jpg

And the speed through SX, even after being very careful through Flugplatz, was astounding compared to before, showing just over 150mph indicated on the speedo, and a GPS verified 143mph

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/0d2363da.jpg

First lap out went well despite a fair bit of traffic, and harrys showed a lap time of 08:38, surprisingly a new PB for me, despite not trying to break any records. We let the car cool down for 5 minutes, and headed out for another lap.

Second lap was much better on the whole, very little traffic, apart from a very slow trip through the foxhole behind an elise, it was still damp in places and I was being cautious, so I was incedibly surprised to see Harrys show an 08:20.65 lap! The video seems to start under the bridge, but show 2.66s on the clock already, but it also stops a little short (around 2-3s at a guess), so I'm not sure if it's an accurate time or not, but even with it stopping short it's still a 08:24 or so, so I was very happy with that.

Video from that lap here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7pvC74tKzc&feature=g-upl

Apple link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7pvC74tKzc&feature=g-upl

After my 2 laps, we adjusted the harnesses, and Dad jumped in for a few laps. We left the car on low boost for Dads laps, as he's not driven it on full boost yet, and we thought the Ring probably wasn't the correct place to explore the car's new power.

First lap out was nice and steady with Dad getting a feel for the car, the medium compound A048's working REALLY well and surprisingly very little wear at all

Second lap out we stuck the Phone on the mount again to film the lap to see the differences between Dad and I, it was a really good fun lap and Dad was flying, despite having the wipers on for half the lap in light rain, that didn't stop him from finishing the lap in 9 mins 34s, a new best for Dad as well!

Clearly the work on the car over winter have worked well, it just feels better in every way now, the tyres making it much more stable in the bends, and the new power giving it legs where previously it felt dead.

Whilst Dad and I had been lapping, Mum and Pierre had been at Pflanzgarten with Michaela taking pictures, I'd met Michaela just that afternoon for the first time, picking up some Springs for Chris she had been keeping. Great to meet you, and a lovely hotel too :thumb:

Floyd
14-07-2012, 11:00 AM
I think I'm going to have to refresh my memory of your project thread to see your power mods.

More please!

Prawn
14-07-2012, 11:03 AM
And then it all got Ugly............. :sad:

Pierre and Mum came back to the carpark, and we had 40 minutes of track time left on our trip before we set off home the next morning. We decided to buy 2 more laps, and I'd take Pierre out for 2 back to back as he's not been round a lap since the first miss firing lap on Monday.

2 tickets bought, and the sun low in the sky, we adjusted the harnesses back to my driving position, and set off on my 5th lap of the trip.

The track seemed totally empty, and we didn't see another car the entire way! we were absolutely flying really enjoying having the track all to ourselves.

Things were going well as we rounded Flugplatz, slightly damp offline, but plenty of grip. I came down the dip approaching Schwedenkreuz, and glanced down at the speedo to see if nearing an indicated 150mph.

God knows why, dont even ask, but for some utterly daft reason I felt the need to say to Pierre ''look at the speedo - 150!''

Now, I always glance at the speedo before SX, to try and get an idea of how much I need to slow down (I have it my head that I need to be down to 110 for the bend), and traffic depending sometimes no braking is needed if you've been sat in a que. For some reason though, this time it threw my concentration, and I THINK, from watching the vid, I tried to move over to the Right too much at the last minute. Some have said it looks like a clipped the grass, I'm not sure, but what resulted was not fun at all.

There are certain views of the nurburgring, at certain speeds, that you should hope you never have to see.

Like this:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/823582cf.jpg

And this:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/10d7bb79.jpg

And this:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/c7758f60.jpg

The back end went right at a GPS 140mph, I tried to catch it but couldn't, so quickly accepted that it was going to hurt and got ready for impact, yelling BIG CRASH hoping Pierre would ready himself for impact too.

We went in backwards, perfectly parallel to the barriers, with an impact speed of 117mph, the front bumper ripped itself off due to air pressure going backwards at 130, and we bounced off the barrier,only to come back round, and finally come to rest just kissing the barrier around 300 yards from where it all began.

The car was still running, and I knew instantly that we were a sitting target, just behind a blind bend after one of the fastest parts of the track. I checked Pierre was OK (a look was all that was needed - hence no audio of that) and backed the car up, making sure we stayed on the grass, and then drove around 100 yards down the verge to get out of danger and park the car at a Marshall post to avoid any further collisions. As soon as I parked up I grabbed my Hi-Vis and started running back up towards the corner to flag the accident to others, but before I even got half way up the hill, the Ring marshalls had already arrived, having been out to do a sighting lap after shutting the track early due to another accident elsewhere that was already being marshalled.

With the track shut, and the marshalls on the scene, I walked back down to find out what was left of my car.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/5d5f1717.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/937233ba.jpg

BOLLOCKS

Prawn
14-07-2012, 11:06 AM
And the video from that horrible episode:

Video removed by GK as they are against forum rules. I am leaving the pictures for now, although strictly these are against northloop rules also.

Video now allowed again :) Thanks GK


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaC8ihrJq_s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaC8ihrJq_s

Chris D
14-07-2012, 11:15 AM
Ouch!!!

Glad you were both ok though. Good drills post incident :thumb:

Really good report otherwise.

What's the status of the car now or is this yet to be covered?

Mike Roberts
14-07-2012, 11:16 AM
I know this is no consolation, but you've been so, so lucky there.

Glad you're both ok :thumb:

Stumpy
14-07-2012, 11:20 AM
Crap man.
Was going really well by the looks of it too. Clipping the grass, and it being still wet...

You're both ok which is the main thing. And did the right thing by getting the car out of the way.

How's the car?

EDIT
That Harry's Lap Timer is great though!

texas2201
14-07-2012, 11:20 AM
Good clean lap and very little traffic

obviously for the previous lap!!!

OMG - but initially it doesnt look toooo bad :-(

Simon
14-07-2012, 11:27 AM
Nick. As per pm, so glad that you are both ok.

Never a small one at SX & it could have been so much worse. Great thinking re getting you & the car safe & then getting flagging.

Looks like you just put a wheel on the grass & then became a passenger on a pretty frighting ride! :shock:

Good effort in trying to get a bigger barrier bill by bumping it again on the way to the Marshall post lol :lol:

Glad that you & the car are back home now & howls you get it sorted soon. I was enjoying the trip report, even knowing what was coming up :thumb:

Emmet
14-07-2012, 11:33 AM
That was undoubtably a huge brown pants moment! Hope the damage isn't too bad.

Kudos for having the presence of mind to both warn your mate to brace and immediately get the car (and you) out of harms way :thumb:

simonsaunders
14-07-2012, 11:40 AM
Not much to say really. Glad you walked away and kept it a solo car incident. :thumb:

texas2201
14-07-2012, 11:44 AM
glad you are both OK

Prawn
14-07-2012, 11:53 AM
So, that didn't go so well!

Another Marshall car arrived, and they took Pierre and I up to show us where we had crashed. We arrived at my front bumper, sitting neatly by the armco, and there was no damage.

''Where did you crash'' he said, I hadn't got a clue! Further back up the track, and still no damage. All seeming very odd.

ANOTHER 100 yards up the track, and we saw the skid marks just after the crest, then it all became clear.

We had hit the barrier so squarely, that rather than dent it, we had just pushed it all back without even denting the beams. It wasn't immediately obvious where we had hit it at all, but sadly, they found it after 5 minutes looking!

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/b6bdff61.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/b89abf0e.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/2d449baf.jpg

I started to panic when I saw him write 63m on the barrier, and demanded to have the whole thing explained to me, thanksfully, 63m was just a hugely worrying form number, Form 63M, not the 63 metres I thought I was about to be billed for!

Pierre stayed with the car and truck, and I was taken back to the office in the car with the Marshalls to pay my bill.

Thankfully, I wasn't TOO terrified in the car on the way round, as the marshall had already told me it was going to be around 3000 Euro for the barrier, and I knew I could cover that with the money on my debit account, so at least I wasn't going to get into any further trouble for that.

Back to the office and Mum and Dad were waiting for me, looking VERY worried. I explained that both Pierre and I were fine, and went into the office to pay my debts to NGMBH.

I was greeted with a bill for 2977 euros. 28m of barrier and 5 posts, plus marshall deployment. OUCH.

I handed over my card, entered my PIN, then heart that horrible dull tone of rejection. WTF? I had plenty to cover it!

tried again - Rejected again. ARGH.

Mum stepped up (thank the lord for Mums) and tried to put the whole lot on her card - Rejected!

WTF? We both had the money to cover it easily, we couldn't understand.

We decided to try 1000 on each, so I tried first - rejected. This was getting stupid now.

Mum tried her card for 1000 euros, and it went through, thank god.

Then, Pierre very kindly offered to put 1000 euros on his card, and it went straight through. 2000 paid, just 1000 left.

I called Tori, who told me we had over 1000 in our joint account, and i could put it on that. Put the card in, typed the pin, WRONG PIN. ARGH. My head was so messed up now, I was typing totally the wrong pin, which I now realise.

So, there we are, with 2000 euros paid, 1000 left, and Bongard still wouldn't give us the car back. I was determined not to let it go to their yard overnight. It's my car, and it doesn't go out of my sight, ever.

Whilst we were discussing what to do, an American chap was also in the office, in a full race suit, paying his bill for 1500 euros for an off at Hocheichen.

What happened next, I could scarcely believe:

'' are you guys having trouble paying your bill?''

''Yes, we have more than enough money but the bank has blocked the transaction thinking it's fraud''

''oh wow, that's bad news, I could pay it for you''

I honestly couldn't believe it!

This guy, who we later found was called Bill, just paid the remaining 977 Euros for me, only 30 seconds after first meeting me. I couldn't believe my luck! All he wanted as interest was a lift back up to his hotel, because his car was in a bad way and being taken to Bongards on a truck.

Utterly stunned by Bills kind gesture, we took him back to his hotel room at the Lindner, where he told us about his 550bhp 2012 Shelby Mustang, now with only 3 wheels. Poor bloke.

What made it worse for Bill, was that he had a 2013 Mustang waiting for him back in the states, and the 2012 was his trade in!

Bills wife was worried that he wasn't OK, so he passed the phone over to Dad, who made several rude jokes about Bill and americans in general, which made me cringe (he's just given us 1000 euros!!!!), but Bill loved it, and it seemed to be just what his wife needed to hear, so well done Dad! :thumb:

We took Bill out for Dinner to say thank you, and went for a steak at PK, not something he'd done during his stay. Bill was an awesome chap, so friendly and full of stories, we all got on really well and had a great time, which really helped to forget about the horrible day we'd both had.

After the meal, we headed back to the hotel, had a few beers and chatted about the days events, then headed to bed for some much needed sleep!

Prawn
14-07-2012, 12:11 PM
I forgot to mention, during all the panic, I needed somewhere to put the car, so thinking of places as close to the Ring as possible, I tried to call Martin a the Burgstube, sadly, due to a phone problem, my calls didn't get through, so I called Michaela, who was absolutely brilliant and let us put the bashed up car behind her hotel for the night -

Massive thanks to Michaela, she sorted everything out with the recory driver for me, and really made things so much easier, as they were absolutely adamant that it was going to Bongards until she spoke to them - I owe you! :thumb: you're a star.

So, after some much needed sleep, we went to Michaelas to take a look at the car the next morning:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/3f20ffd6.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/13bcb097.jpg

It was looking sad, so I pushed the front bumper on, and instantly felt a little better:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/48f886bd.jpg

Dad then had to go and collect Bill, and take him to Koblenz to pick up a hire car, so Pierre and I sat around looking at the car for a while, and took a few pictures.


Things wern't looking good after an initial damage inspection:

Obviously the rear beam was dead.

The front left wishbone was around an inch shorter than before:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/513a4c91.jpg

The crash bar had done it's job amazingly, and the intercooler core is 100% intact!

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/be8a178f.jpg

Inside things wern't so good though, check out the seat position:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/b4daefc1.jpg

My FIA spec welded in seat rails hadn't budged 1 bit, but the FIA approved sparco steel side mounts had bent LOADS. The sideways impact obviously just too much for them. The seats had cracks around all mounting points, but apart from one bolt hole, they had stayed together just fine.

One captive plate on my seat had pulled through the fibreglass, where the leverage from the bending side mounts obviously got too much:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/de3dcbaa.jpg

The worst bit I can find is this on the rear seat squab:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/f28493bc.jpg

This is directly where the rear beam mounts to the shell. It hasn't moved left or right at all, but had pushed upwards around 8mm. Any thoughts on jigging / possible fixes?

I took it to X-sport racing yesterday, who said the damage was so minimal they would consider adding a small spacer between the beam mount and the shell rather than paying to have it jigged straight. Has anyone got any experience of this?



At this point, having had a look around we were convinced that the car was dead, so we locked it up, and walked back to our hotel to wait for Dad and Bill to get back

mr rooney
14-07-2012, 12:12 PM
WOW ! That was generous of Bill! Was his surname Gates by any chance:chin:

Graham88
14-07-2012, 12:20 PM
Prawn, in the loose sense of the word, you are one lucky bastard!

Could have gone so wrong there infant if you hadn't tried to catch the slide I'm certain you'd have rolled it after seeing so many cars do so there

And then to get a random guy pay 1/3rd of your bill! Why didn't I have a wealthy American around when I had to pay my bill lol

Damage doesn't look too bad tbh mate rear quarter is probably the biggest pain in the arse due to not being something you can do yourself

Nige
14-07-2012, 12:31 PM
Unbelievable from Bill :shock:

Very relieved to hear you are ok. The car certainly looks fixable. I am not sure about just adding a spacer to level off the rear beam though. I'll leave that for the experts to decide. :fish:

bongards can certainly be arsey about where to drop off your car, I remember when I wanted dropping off at the campsite instead of their yard, it took a couple of phone calls to change their mind.

George Bolton
14-07-2012, 12:50 PM
Excellent report thanks for posting, not many of us are willing to admit to getting it wrong, sometimes we just want to sleek away and hope no-one will notice,

I found the video of the accident informative and just makes me realize how careful we have to be and how easy it is to loose concentration on that last lap of the day,

ultegra
14-07-2012, 12:51 PM
Bloody gutted for you mate - I came within an inch of having this happen to my old M3 Compact a year ago, and in EXACTLY the same place so I can really identify with all the emotions. (Look carefully and you can see the skid from the nearside-front miss the armco by about naff-all, the broad skid is from both the nearside-rear and the offside-front together).

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/312642_2330289542484_4218737_n.jpg

The flip side is what a pleasant surprise it is that this kind of misfortune can still bring out the very best in people. Kind of restores your faith in human nature doesn't it?

I know I haven't seen the car, but a proper jigging and offering-up a known to be straight axle ought to get it serviceable again - based on your polaroids anyway. I wouldn't want to mess with a spacer, rather i would want to jack the mounting back to where it came from in terms of XYZ.

Glad you're alright - wallet scars heal faster than you first think, mate.

:thumb:

Prawn
14-07-2012, 01:04 PM
Dad returned with Bill around 11:30, and we all jumped in the car and headed up to the Burgstube to see Martin, I figured of all the people I knew in nurburg, he was definitely best placed to give us advice on what to do with Bills car, and possible storage as well. We'd heard news that Lizzard was coming to the Burgstube on Friday as well, so it seemed like the obvious place to go.

At the Burgstube, along with Martin and Heidi, we also met Simon and Tim, really great to meet you guys :thumb:

After a few pictures of Bills mustang, it was pretty clear that Bills mustang wasn't in a position to be fixed in Germany, the parts would simply have been too expensive over there, and we soon realised it'd need to go to a port as it was, on 3 wheels.

Bill had tried to cal Alex earlier that day, and left him a message. Martin tried to call alex, and he answered ''Hello Martin, you're going to tell me about an American arn't you - my bloody phone has been playing up, I've just got his message''

Details were exchanged, and I believe Alex is picking the Mustang up from Bongards and taking it to a port in Amsterdam.

I showed everyone a few pictures of the car, and was promptly told to man up, get back to Michaelas, and get fixing it. I'd been so down I'd just given up on it at first, but they convinced my that far worse cars had been driven home, and when I look at the cost of recovery, or coming back to collect it, it started to make sense - thanks guys, you REALY helped!

Armed with fresh enthusiasm, we headed back to the car and got the tools out, and more importantly, the duck tape!

The rear arch was pulled out with a hammer at first, then rolled with a jack handle and pushing the car until the wheel cleared:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/1682ffb1.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/d8b073a0.jpg

Then Pierre jumped inside and pushed out lots of the quarter panel with his feet:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/4bbbe965.jpg

We re-did the tracking by eye, which needed LOTS of adjustment as the track had been narrowed by over an inch!

I jumped in to see if I could roll it back and forth under it's own power, and pretty soon realised the angle of the seats would make us feel very sick, very quickly:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/c2369290.jpg

So the seats came out, and we stamped and bashed the seat mounts straight again, and bolted the seats back in. They're a tiny bit off still, but it was enough to get us home.

The front wing was bashed out with a hammer, and we removed the stickers to get a better idea of the body damage when it was all one colour, then we went for a test drive back to our hotel!

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/9b2ba032.jpg

Amazingly, it drove OK!

Nothing rubbed, it drove reasonably straight, and none of the tyres were scrubbing at all. It was a bit lively at the back end due to LOTS of toe out, but so long as we kept it below 40mph, it was managable.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/fa73c986.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/7dca5577.jpg

We packed everything up, got changed, and headed down into Mullenback for dinner. We had planned to go to the Burgstube, but they wern't serving food that evening, so after a lovely Pizza in Mullenbach, we headed up to the 'tube for a few beers and a relax!

The next morning, we loaded up the cars, packing as much as possible into the Polo (poor polo!), and packing the A3 as light as we possibly could, with ALL the weight forwards and on the right hand side, to try and minimise the influence of the bent rear wheel.

We kept the Silver wheels and A048's on the Right hand side, and fitted 2 Super T's and road tyres on the left hand side where it was most likely to scrub, this kept the car looking normal from either side, and not drawing attention with miss matched wheels.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/fd361fcc.jpg

Here's me trying my absolute best to look enthusiastic, although lets be honest, I just look special, and sad:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/8ddf81a0.jpg

We popped up to the Lindner to pick up some stuff that Bill thought he had left in his room. Sadly it wasn't there after all, and the staff at the Lindner didn't look too impressed at all to see my wreck parked outside!

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/0a3753e6.jpg

The trip back was SLOOOOOOOOOW, in the wet in the morning, anything above 40mph felt terrifying, with the back end all over the place.

It dried up in the afternoon, and we were able to push up to 50mph occasionally, but on the rough belgian roads, it was just terrifying, with the back of the car following the ruts from all the trucks. not fun at all.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/2ae8a5c4.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/0ba2fdcb.jpg



We left Nurburg just before 9am, and got to the ferry at 5:30pm, just in time for the crossing.

Luckily, Pierres lorry supply of hair gel and sunglasses arrived just at the same time:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/8fbe972c.jpg

My suspicions that the car was still straight and savable were confirmed on the ferry:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/625a3208.jpg

It fits in the grid lines on my camera from above, so it MUST be straight still? Right? :lol:

Poor car looked tiny down there:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/ea706428.jpg

And finally, a 'welcome home - England is shit' picture!

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/7f7e4b4d.jpg


What a trip!

Highs, lows, old friends, new friends, debt, loans, kind strangers, new lessons.

I cannot possibly praise the car enough in this, all the work, and all the safety gear has been SO worth while. Words just cannot describe how lucky we both were to walk out totaly unharmed, and it's all thanks to the safety equipment in the car. I have absolutely no doubt about that at all.

I must also offer a MASSIVE thanks to everbody in Germany who helped me out, To Charles and Irma at the hotel for making sure we had everything we needed, to Michaela for offering us a place to store the car and helping when my nervous german let me down, to Martin and Heidi for making us feel at home and welcome.

Thanks to Bruce for his help and advice on the phone, and going so off topic I almost forgot I'd had a crash.

Thanks to Bill, the completely random stranger who helped me out when I really needed it, and to everyone else who sent me messages on here and on facebook, offering traillers, local advice, lifts home, and general support, I got so many messages I couldn't even name you all, but thank you so much to everyone.

But most of all, thanks to my Mum and Dad, and Pierre, for being quite simply, awesome in every way!

Olivera
14-07-2012, 01:32 PM
Interestingly, watching your accident video I'm not convinced that you did put the front drivers side wheel on the grass. On the white line yes, with a couple of inches to spare, but not on the grass itself. So it perhaps looks like the car just got unsettled over the bump at such a high speed.

leavingeasy
14-07-2012, 02:01 PM
You have PM!

northernjim
14-07-2012, 02:50 PM
Really sorry to hear about this mate, but you're ok and the car drove home - it could have been so much worse.


were you still on the throttle when you went over the bump? I did that once and had a bit of a wobble - didn't enjoy that at all:sad:




Pierre looks tiny in that pic? Is he really small. Or is the A3 bigger than I thought? :chin:

:lol: that A3 looks massive

Nige
14-07-2012, 03:10 PM
From the video, it appears you moved to the right before the crest a bit too soon, so you went over the crest with a little right hand lock. At 140, that`s going to unsettle the car a bit....

This is the line I take.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b207/wh00sher/ScreenShot019.jpg

hartyb
14-07-2012, 03:16 PM
well done for sorting it out and getting the A3 home :veryhappy:

in time it will a good tail to tell over a beer!

ultegra
14-07-2012, 03:24 PM
From the video, it appears you moved to the right before the crest a bit too soon, so you went over the crest with a little right hand lock. At 140, that`s going to unsettle the car a bit....

This is the line I take.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b207/wh00sher/ScreenShot019.jpg

A couple of things come into play here:


The crest isn't at 90 degrees to the track, it's oblique so the wheels on an axle 'hurdle' over separately.
The faster you go, the more you need to 're-learn' the effect of the crest.
The car, if up-unweighted, wants to wag it's arse to the right (so it's important to leave enough margin on the right to stop it wagging onto a damp white line, or worse the grass (which is what initiated our moment detailed above)).

Joel
14-07-2012, 03:25 PM
You were either very unlucky, or very lucky, depending on your perspective.

Personally I think pretty much everything after this point was lucky...

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/823582cf.jpg

Glad to hear you manged to sort the situation well enough to drive it home again :thumb:

pye21
14-07-2012, 04:02 PM
As has been said, very lucky. Could have been sooooo much worse there.

Think about Ian's incident in the Arosa at much less speed a few years ago.

Good going to get it back home and driving, to have a crash at 140mph and drive the car home says a lot.

What are the seats you have fitted?

Did you bend the steering wheel? The Fake OMP/Sparco ones like that tend to be prone to bending very easy, what the vid on Driftworks site.

Joel
14-07-2012, 04:02 PM
This is how you do it properly though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8U-up9SHbI

Prawn
14-07-2012, 04:22 PM
Thanks for all the kind comments folks, I'm pretty gutted, but as above, I really think it'll fix up OK, I just need to find a decent body shop to sort the rear quarter, and find somewhere to jig the back end to make sure it's perfect again. I might then add some form of bracing from the cage to strenghen the point for the future.



What are the seats you have fitted?

Did you bend the steering wheel? The Fake OMP/Sparco ones like that tend to be prone to bending very easy, what the vid on Driftworks site.

Oi :lol: The steering wheel isn't a fake! It's a Genuine OMP Corsica from 2010, bought last year from Demon Tweeks for about 100 as it was last years model, and fitted to a mates car for 3 days then into his loft. I bought it last week to replace my cheap ebay one after reading the horror stories.



The seats though, I will admit are cheap replicas of a Sparco Pro 2000. They weigh 6kg each, and the shells are around 8mm thick all round, with a 50mm square plate bonded into the GRP at the 4 mounting points.

I was going to put up a seperate post about the seats, asking what would usually happen to a GRP shelled seat in a side on impact. I would expect any seat to suffer and be replaced after such an impact, but wasn't sure if an FIA approved seat would have failled in the same manner. Any thoughts?

pye21
14-07-2012, 04:29 PM
Centre cap isnt OMP, stitching looks too big as well, thats why i say fake.

Im no sure on the manufacture of the seats and how they strength the area around the mounting, but that seams like a lot of damage for the impact you had.

I wouldnt put anything safety related (especially the device that carries you in any incident, you wouldnt run non FIA harness's would you?) in a track car that isnt FIA approved.

pye21
14-07-2012, 04:36 PM
I wonder how well the car would have held up without the cage, would it still be driveable?

I still cant get over how it was soo straight and driveable. Very impressive and testament to having a properly caged car i would say.

I bet your glad you went to the expense/trouble of fitting the full cage now?

I know UB has a dozer for pulling cars, but i would expect it would be worth chucking it onto a jig to be 100% happy. JJ has one down the road from me in Kirkby (Liverpool).

leavingeasy
14-07-2012, 05:27 PM
Another vote for UB here Nick- you know he'll look after you and the job will be spot on.

Drop him a PM- thanks for the message- hopefully see you at GW.

leavingeasy
14-07-2012, 05:32 PM
As an aside I thought GK didn't allow videos of accidents unless they were posted by the person involved?

N/B
14-07-2012, 05:36 PM
Glad to hear you made it home, and that the car did too!
From the meticulous approach you took with the build, I bet you won't be happy in the long run with the spacer option - have it jigged properly and you'll feel more comfortable pushing the car properly when it's back on track :thumb:

Gary Kinghorn
14-07-2012, 05:45 PM
As an aside I thought GK didn't allow videos of accidents unless they were posted by the person involved?


I have indeed removed the vid Nick as its against NL rules. I'm sure if people want to watch it they will find it elsewhere.

Gary Kinghorn
14-07-2012, 05:47 PM
Another vote for UB here Nick- you know he'll look after you and the job will be spot on.

Drop him a PM- thanks for the message- hopefully see you at GW.

Indeed, he did a great job on mine and it was at least as bad as this. Or at least it looked to be.

Prawn
14-07-2012, 06:08 PM
Centre cap isnt OMP, stitching looks too big as well, thats why i say fake.



You've got me wondering now Ian, the wheel was bought new as a christmas present for a mate last year, see here test fitted on my car:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/af3f709a.jpg

But the muppet who had it managed to lose the horn button and centre ring in the last 6 months, so I used my old button and ring from the cheap wheel, but this red stitched wheel is said to be genuine.

I'll be gutted if it isn't, but I'm not sure how you'd tell.

I'm TOLD it's a corsica from 2010.

As for GK removing the vid, I totally understand, like Oakie, I thought it was OK if the owner was posting himself, but Gary has his reasons and I respect that, so I'm sorry to have broken the rules. If anyone is genuinely interested then you can ask me about it, but it's unlisted on youtube also so will not show up on a search.

Kev_G
14-07-2012, 06:53 PM
lots of lessons learned and just glad your ok Nick. Kelly read this at the same time and me and said "oh no he didnt do the 'just one more lap' routine did he as you dont do that" :lol:

autohabit
14-07-2012, 07:48 PM
Glad you are both ok and the car will fix up. Lucky the car didn't roll, if it had, imagine how many hits those seat mounting points could have taken, you could have been rattling round in the car like a pea in a can!

Glad to see you showed quick thinking with the Hi-Vis in such a stressful moment - Take note newbies reading this.

Simon
14-07-2012, 08:19 PM
Take note newbies reading this.

Not just the newbies. One persons misfortune might hopefully help a good few people to realise that things can go wrong and if they remember what to do then that's good :thumb:

jme
14-07-2012, 08:24 PM
Great write up of a trip you'll never forget. As everyone else has put happy everyone is ok.

leeman
14-07-2012, 08:52 PM
OMG, when I saw that photo of seeing the armco at high speed, I genuinely had a heart in mouth moment. Very glad you are both OK and the car isn't totalled!

A2ON
14-07-2012, 09:12 PM
heading to the ring next week for a week makes you think .

Do they keep your car if you cant pay ?

Glad you are both ok

Joel
14-07-2012, 09:21 PM
heading to the ring next week for a week makes you think .

Do they keep your car if you cant pay ?

I think they don't let you leave the premises until you do pay, or the local Polizei become involved.

I don't think they'd be interested in a worthless, balled-up wreck of a car in lieu of payment for thousands of Euros worth of circuit damage.

Andy C
14-07-2012, 09:21 PM
This acci-bump that didn't happen. Can I not have a link to the video that isn't there because I don't want to be able to learn from other peoples mistakes and potentially prevent it from happening again.

Hurrah for Bill, a thoroghly nice, if daft as a brush chap.

Pedro
14-07-2012, 09:28 PM
Ive crashed twice, once "repairing" (with plastics and black tape, along with new subframe) the car and driving it back to Portugal, and last year leaving it too damaged to drive, later bringing it home on a truck and then fixing it. I honestly think crashing (cars) on the Nordschleife teaches you a lesson in being humble towards the track, and also makes you appreciate it even more, more so when you crash victim of an honest mistake like you did (and I did as well, dont mean to sound patronizing)

Yours was an expensive one, and Im sure it hurts the pocket, but SX crashes usually bad ones, and its a good thing nobody was hurt.

Hope you have it fixed properly and take it back when you can, or when you feel like it, for me the laps following the first crash were very interesting ones.

-Jamie-
14-07-2012, 10:46 PM
Glad your both ok dude, Hopefully it won't be too hard to get sorted.


Lots of respect to Bill too, Still shows there are event people out there!

lizard
14-07-2012, 11:17 PM
Ohh that could have been sooo much worse, glad its not too horrific, 140mph offs at SX generally don't end well at all & you drove it home, wowzer.

I'm chatting to Bill & should be doing that next wk.

For me tho 110 turn in at sx is a tad too quick, well in Golfy anyway, I have done it but wasnt too happy with it, under a ton nowadays, feels pedestian, but does leave a good margin.

texas2201
15-07-2012, 06:22 AM
Ohh that could have been sooo much worse, glad its not too horrific, 140mph offs at SX generally don't end well at all & you drove it home, wowzer.

I'm chatting to Bill & should be doing that next wk.

For me tho 110 turn in at sx is a tad too quick, well in Golfy anyway, I have done it but wasnt too happy with it, under a ton nowadays, feels pedestian, but does leave a good margin.

Ditto Yikes

CaptSolo
15-07-2012, 07:52 AM
Really good thread Nick, and so glad you guys were safe after that crash. I just remember Ian W's accident there in his little Seat Arosa where he rolled it, and due to a proper cage job was able to walk away. Real testament to good safety gear in those cases.

And loved the redneck engineering to get it home, duct tape, bent wheel, and all.

Look forward to the repair/rebuild thread for the Audi! :thumb:

Gary Kinghorn
15-07-2012, 07:54 AM
If you can't pay you shouldn't play chap. The last thing you want is to hear the sound of Herman the local old bill pulling on his elbow length rubber clothes :wink:

This is extra specially true if you don't have bullet proof car insurance.

Dan
15-07-2012, 08:10 AM
You are one lucky boy Prawn!!

Nice write up and glad you were able to drive it home. :thumb:

vw_singh
15-07-2012, 08:30 AM
Oh my! Was going really well too glad you are all in one piece and yea, VERY lucky.

Gurds

Prawn
15-07-2012, 10:19 AM
Heading down to UB's tomorrow to assess the damage on the ramp. Will see how bad it looks, and take it from there!

If it IS beyond repair, I'll look at my options then, but I'm really hoping it can be saved, there is 6 years and and huge amount of sentimental value in this car.

Gary Kinghorn
15-07-2012, 10:36 AM
Hopefully it's going on a trailer :whistle:

I'm there on Friday and will have a nose around if its still around.

Daniel
15-07-2012, 10:57 AM
End result wasn't as bad as it could have been. Does this change your opinion of TF without insurance?

pye21
15-07-2012, 11:11 AM
Hopefully it's going on a trailer :whistle:

I'm there on Friday and will have a nose around if its still around.

Why?

Its still road legal and it drove all the way back from Germany.

BigAl
15-07-2012, 11:19 AM
Glad your both ok dude, Hopefully it won't be too hard to get sorted.


Lots of respect to Bill too, Still shows there are event people out there! What a guy, nothing much said apart from stick it on my card, pay me when you can. He told me his surname began with an H but I am sure its with a G. His wife was beside herself with worry and did not believe he was OK (damaged ribs perhaps) so he gave me his phone to reassure his wife. I told her he was OK and everything was fixable apart from one thing. She of course said "what's that ) and I told her. He is ugly. She laughed and was OK from there on. Once more Bill, you are one hell of a guy. Hope to meet again.

Graham88
15-07-2012, 11:23 AM
Insurance doesn't cover the barriers anyway so unless you are driving an expensive car it's still not worth it IMO

leavingeasy
15-07-2012, 12:03 PM
What time you going to UBs- i'll pop over and say hi.

(any hance you could bring my tow bar??)

Mark
15-07-2012, 12:45 PM
:shock:

I was expecting injuries and the car to look a hell of a lot worse after hearing about a 140mph incident at SX. Unlucky to have the incident and be out of pocket but lucky in that it could have been a hell of a lot worse. Hope everything is sorted quickly.

Is 'Bill' coming to DN? :whistle:

hartyb
15-07-2012, 01:52 PM
Insurance doesn't cover the barriers anyway so unless you are driving an expensive car it's still not worth it IMO

Odd Coment Graham:fish:

And as for people claming for Barriers this is a big part to english Insurance with drawing from cover on the ring.

Lets get this stright you can not drive In TF with out Insurance. So if it says Any thing about not being allowed on the ring in any way as mentioned in many posts before, you should not be there end of.

if court you will have an unplaned stay in Germany looking through Bars :karl:

hartyb
15-07-2012, 02:05 PM
This acci-bump that didn't happen. Can I not have a link to the video that isn't there because I don't want to be able to learn from other peoples mistakes and potentially prevent it from happening again.

Hurrah for Bill, a thoroghly nice, if daft as a brush chap.


Have to agree here

is it not time we have a limited access for the out side world, may be with another password were things like this can be revied and discussed? then full fact revies could be posted :chin:

or does it all have to be on Facebroken (which I am not on) and if so why have Northloop!

sparrow
15-07-2012, 02:15 PM
Good to see you back and in one piece. As said above, 140mph accidents at SX generally don't end as well as yours.

As for fixing the car, yours can be fixed. As the guy that straightened mine told me, anything is fixable, it just depends how much you want to spend. :thumb:

Drop me a PM with the vid link if you wouldn't mind.

Prawn
15-07-2012, 02:40 PM
Hopefully it's going on a trailer :whistle:



I'll be driving it down Gary, I've just redone the tracking on the front and it drives OK to be honest, a bit bent, but OK. Depending on UB's assessment, I'll either leave it there and get a taxi to the train station, or drive it home and book it in to go back in the future.


Does this change your opinion of TF without insurance?

Perhaps, but not in the same way you might think. It's simply opened my eyes to the possibility for it to escillate if a 3rd party were to become involved.
I have every confidence that my insurance company would pay out if I were to submit a claim, they have done in the past for others, and my policy wording has not changed in some years. However, every Nurburgring claim made in England is another nail in the coffin for TF to the UK market, I had my own accident, and got off relatively lightly all things considered, so I'd rather just deal with it myself than have it on my record for the next 5 years. I'd rather not turn this into an insurance thread though!


What time you going to UBs- i'll pop over and say hi.

(any hance you could bring my tow bar??)

Gareth said to get there mid Morning, so I'll probably be down for half 9-10ish and have a nose around. Be good to meet you Nick, I will go and chuck the tow bar in the boot now! :thumb:

Prawn
15-07-2012, 02:47 PM
Video kindly allowed to be reinstated by GK after consideration.

Thanks Gary :thumb:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaC8ihrJq_s

A2ON
15-07-2012, 02:57 PM
Sign here for the Armco "PRAWN"

http://howzit-hongkong.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/District-9_l.jpg

:)

hartyb
15-07-2012, 03:06 PM
[QUOTE=Prawn;764099]



Perhaps, but not in the same way you might think. It's simply opened my eyes to the possibility for it to escillate if a 3rd party were to become involved.
I have every confidence that my insurance company would pay out if I were to submit a claim, they have done in the past for others, and my policy wording has not changed in some years. However, every Nurburgring claim made in England is another nail in the coffin for TF to the UK market, I had my own accident, and got off relatively lightly all things considered, so I'd rather just deal with it myself than have it on my record for the next 5 years. I'd rather not turn this into an insurance thread though!


If only everyone had thought like this in the first place 10 out 10 Nick

Insurance IMO should only be used were people are hurt on the ring and inasent Third partys, may be the standared of driving would Improve as well.

Prawn
15-07-2012, 03:11 PM
If only everyone had thought like this in the first place 10 out 10 Nick

Insurance IMO should only be used were people are hurt on the ring and innocent Third partys, may be the standared of driving would Improve as well.

Exactly Bruce :thumb:

If it wern't for the death of common sense in the UK, TF would probably also still be alive here!

Ah well. life goes on!

Daniel
15-07-2012, 03:15 PM
Insurance doesn't cover the barriers anyway so unless you are driving an expensive car it's still not worth it IMO


I meant third party, not first.

Simon
15-07-2012, 03:17 PM
Insurance doesn't cover the barriers anyway so unless you are driving an expensive car it's still not worth it IMO

& if or when you hit Mr German banker in his RS & put him in a wheelchair? What do you do then? :fish:

No insurance then don't drive on TF. It really is not worth the risk as you could lose everything &, like Bruce has said, end up with an extended stay in Germany in a room without a view!!

A2ON
15-07-2012, 06:34 PM
i did not think you could get TF insurance ~? can someone explain maybe via pm to keep thread clean ?

fairycakepixie
15-07-2012, 06:38 PM
Glad everyone's OK. :shock:

Gary Kinghorn
15-07-2012, 06:47 PM
i did not think you could get TF insurance ~? can someone explain maybe via pm to keep thread clean ?

Every German has TF insurance and if he crashes into Mr Brit then the Police expect Mr Brit to have similar cover. If Mr Brit doesn't he may need to ring his employer at home and extend his holiday a little :wink:

Just because you struggle to get cover, it doesn't mean it's ok to drive TF without. You are either insured or you don't drive :wink:

lizard
15-07-2012, 07:05 PM
i did not think you could get TF insurance ~? can someone explain maybe via pm to keep thread clean ?

Its dificult, but not imposible.

A2ON
15-07-2012, 07:07 PM
So people insure it as part of their normal road going policy ?

what companies do this as everyone i have been with excludes it . .

thanks in advance.

Joel
15-07-2012, 07:08 PM
In simple terms, if you have cover to drive in Europe then you are legally covered to drive the Ring. This will satisfy Mr German and the German police, but the majority of insurers will then sue you for any payout they have to make and get their money back from you.

hartyb
15-07-2012, 07:14 PM
So people insure it as part of their normal road going policy ?

what companies do this as everyone i have been with excludes it . .

thanks in advance.

this is a worth a read
http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/nurburgring_insurance.pdf

Screacher
15-07-2012, 08:09 PM
Insurance doesn't cover the barriers anyway so unless you are driving an expensive car it's still not worth it IMO
Blimey. This has to be the most uninformed comment on here that I have ever seen (not to mention selfish). Insurance on TF is not for the person who bins his own car but for the cases where it involves others. It is a public road (during TF) and should have no difference to driving anywhere else where insurance is mandatory.

I drive UK track days and make my decision whether to pay extra for insurance cover. I do the same when I drive DN events. But both of those are closed track and every participant signs an indemnity form. TF is totally different and I will not drive a TF day unless I have cover (3rd party, not fully comp/first party).

So please, next time you decide to go to Nurburg and drive TF without insurance, please let me know so I can avoid being there at the same time. If by some chance we are there at the same time and your accident/fluid spill causes me to crash, then we can "discuss" the cost of the damage to my car . It's only an E30 so not as expensive as a Porsche, Ferrari or even high-spec BMW so you wouldn't have too much to worry about. However, if I am in a coma (or my son/passenger) and unable to express my feelings, with perhaps no prospect of returning to work to support loved ones, then perhaps you may then consider the consequences of driving TF without insurance. Even if a legal battle ensues and you lose, the delay in proceedings could have a major impact on any victim.

DO NOT DRIVE TF WITHOUT INSURANCE. It's not to cover the cost of your car nor the barriers but for those who may through no fault of their own get caught up in your accident.

Mark
15-07-2012, 08:10 PM
So people insure it as part of their normal road going policy ?

what companies do this as everyone i have been with excludes it

thanks in advance.
Don't expect too many replies :lol:

A2ON
15-07-2012, 08:13 PM
this is a worth a read
http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/nurburgring_insurance.pdf

Very useful , i would be very interested to see which companies if any provide cover with road policy's .

Prawn
15-07-2012, 08:23 PM
Very useful , i would be very interested to see which companies if any provide cover with road policy's .

Sad truth is mate, you're not going to find out.

For those of us lucky enough to have cover still in this day and age, I doubt ANYBODY is going to share their secret, because all it takes is one person to phone up and say ''hello Mr, Apparently you'll cover me on the Nurburgring'', and the chances are it'll be canned. Much like brit after brit coming home trying to make a claim for the barriers, it's soon picked up on, and the luxury is denied.

I can understand Stu's frustration entirely though, but I'd rather not turn this into another insurance thread as I said earlier, they never end well.

A2ON
15-07-2012, 08:30 PM
my policy says i am covered in europe so one assumes this is insurance tpo for the ring ?

sorry for all q's but want to be 100% sure

Gary Kinghorn
15-07-2012, 08:32 PM
my policy says i am covered in europe so one assumes this is insurance tpo for the ring ?

sorry for all q's but want to be 100% sure

No, most insurers will call the ring a race track and as such your cover will be null and void.

Simon
15-07-2012, 08:42 PM
my policy says i am covered in europe so one assumes this is insurance tpo for the ring ?

sorry for all q's but want to be 100% sure

& nearly all exclude the Ring by name.

Tabs
15-07-2012, 08:52 PM
Lucky to walk away from that one - indeed to even drive it home! Welcome to the bent wishbone club btw :wave:

A2ON
15-07-2012, 09:07 PM
& nearly all exclude the Ring by name.

From my schedule

What is not covered

1. Excluded uses and excluded drivers
We will not cover any liability, loss or damage
arising while any vehicle covered by this
insurance is being:

1.2 used on the Nurburgring Nordschleife or
any race track, racing circuit or prepared
course unless you have told us about this
and we have agreed to provide cover; or
at person is accompanied by a full
licence holder aged 21 years or over and
the accompanying full licence holder has
held a full driving licence for at least 3
years;

Simon
15-07-2012, 09:39 PM
Well all you have to do is call & ask by the looks of that. Good luck :thumb:

Nige
15-07-2012, 09:42 PM
Anyway, back on topic.....

Antj29
15-07-2012, 09:52 PM
Question I and I am sure many others have is...................

What iPhone mount did you use as it took that impact pretty damn well?

Michaela
15-07-2012, 10:08 PM
Great report Nick and great to meet you and Pierre (pass on a big thanks to him for the tips with the camera)
Nice to see your mum again, shame I missed your dad.
Im still impressed you managed to drive the car back home :-)
Ill send you some pics in the next days

Graham88
15-07-2012, 10:28 PM
Sorry don't want to drag this into an insurance debate but seeing as my comment has clearly rattled a few cages as people have taken it out of context.....

Odd Coment Graham:fish:

And as for people claming for Barriers this is a big part to english Insurance with drawing from cover on the ring.

Lets get this stright you can not drive In TF with out Insurance. So if it says Any thing about not being allowed on the ring in any way as mentioned in many posts before, you should not be there end of.

if court you will have an unplaned stay in Germany looking through Bars :karl:
It was a comment based on what Daniel said originally based on Nicks accident where it was just him and the barriers involved.
Nick's car is worth what, 2k (sorry if it's more Nick I really don't know) but basically, it's not an 'expensive' car by Ring standards so that is what is insured. The barriers are not insured by your insurance so you'd be paying that anyway...so you're telling me you'd have a claim on insurance for the next 5 years by claiming for a cheap motor? So like I say, unless you have an expensive car then it's not worth claiming anyway!
We all know 99% of insurance companies invalidate your insurance on the Ring as clearly stated in the small print, and the few that are insured won't say who they are with.
I never said you can drive without insurance, I do not drive without insurance, I drive a car too valuable not too never mind the fact that you'd be stupid not to have insurance. However like I said, most insurances are invalidated by small print on the Ring and thus...uninsured. I don't mean you do not have insurance at any point.

As Daniel has now stated he meant 3rd party, then yes of course insurance is a must, we all know that some claims can easily head into 100k+ if you take a GT3 RS out and kill the person driving it, but the claim is still in the hands of whatever insurance company you are insured with and however they decide to proceed with it seeing as they have excluded the Ring on small print.

BigAl
15-07-2012, 11:00 PM
Great report Nick and great to meet you and Pierre (pass on a big thanks to him for the tips with the camera)
Nice to see your mum again, shame I missed your dad.
Im still impressed you managed to drive the car back home :-)
Ill send you some pics in the next days

Hi Michaela, sorry I missed you. It was amongst all the chaos. Thanks for looking after my boy. (pride and joy)

hartyb
15-07-2012, 11:10 PM
Sorry don't want to drag this into an insurance debate but seeing as my comment has clearly rattled a few cages as people have taken it out of context.....

It was a comment based on what Daniel said originally based on Nicks accident where it was just him and the barriers involved.
Nick's car is worth what, 2k (sorry if it's more Nick I really don't know) but basically, it's not an 'expensive' car by Ring standards so that is what is insured. The barriers are not insured by your insurance so you'd be paying that anyway...so you're telling me you'd have a claim on insurance for the next 5 years by claiming for a cheap motor? So like I say, unless you have an expensive car then it's not worth claiming anyway!
We all know 99% of insurance companies invalidate your insurance on the Ring as clearly stated in the small print, and the few that are insured won't say who they are with.
I never said you can drive without insurance, I do not drive without insurance, I drive a car too valuable not too never mind the fact that you'd be stupid not to have insurance. However like I said, most insurances are invalidated by small print on the Ring and thus...uninsured. I don't mean you do not have insurance at any point.

As Daniel has now stated he meant 3rd party, then yes of course insurance is a must, we all know that some claims can easily head into 100k+ if you take a GT3 RS out and kill the person driving it, but the claim is still in the hands of whatever insurance company you are insured with and however they decide to proceed with it seeing as they have excluded the Ring on small print.

First I missed the point that it was you were commenting on what Daniel said so Sorry there.

this was why I thought it was an odd comment

The Nurburbring is a Third Party so Barriers are covered and could, but IMO should not be claimed for IMO this is a big reason UK insurance company have with drawn ring cover.

I also just wanted to make it clear to ALL they should not be driving at the ring if they think they do not have cover

Jim Cameron
16-07-2012, 06:00 AM
This thread does Prawn great credit. :thumb:

piman2k
16-07-2012, 07:15 AM
Prawn, first things first, very very sorry to see that your car has taken a big hit but 100,000,000% glad that you are OK for sure.

But the read was inspirational, and you've done yourself a great credit with your practical skills and your level-headed and calm approach to dealing with the aftermath. For that dude, I salute you.

Not too many people can say they nosed into the wall at the Ring at 140mph, span around, and then drove home. Man points achieved. Epic win.

What I will say is that it's opened my eyes to the potential cost of having a bump over there next year for sure.

Thanks for writing this topic dude, eye opening and inspirational for all of us.

Sim
16-07-2012, 08:37 AM
As others have said, well done for keeping a cool head when everything around you has gone wrong!





I think they don't let you leave the premises until you do pay, or the local Polizei become involved.

I don't think they'd be interested in a worthless, balled-up wreck of a car in lieu of payment for thousands of Euros worth of circuit damage.


Lots of internet scaremongering there.

Unless more than one vehicle is involved, or people are injured, the Polizei don't want to know.

The Polizei aren't interested in whether you pay for the barriers or not.

Try asking the Polizei and they will tell you it is not their concern.

And the Ring office can't stop you leaving, that sort of thing was outlawed in 1945.

If you can't pay you have a couple of options.

1. Give them your insurance details, they will bill your insurance company.
If your insurance isn't water tight, they will ask you for the money.

2. Give them all of your contact details, and expect them to chase you if you don't pay within the next couple of weeks.



Nick's car is worth what, 2k (sorry if it's more Nick I really don't know) but basically, it's not an 'expensive' car by Ring standards so that is what is insured. The barriers are not insured by your insurance so you'd be paying that anyway...so you're telling me you'd have a claim on insurance for the next 5 years by claiming for a cheap motor? So like I say, unless you have an expensive car then it's not worth claiming anyway!



If you have cover, you are covered for the barriers.

They are a 3rd party.

sax0joe
16-07-2012, 09:01 AM
Sorry to hear about this dude I cant imagine what it must feel like damaging your pride and joy but again respect for how you carried on after.

We all need a bill in our lives

Weeman
16-07-2012, 10:54 AM
Sign here for the Armco "PRAWN"

http://howzit-hongkong.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/District-9_l.jpg

:)

That made me lol. :lol:

Just seen this thread, gutted for you :( . Like its been said credit for the way you dealt with it. I've had my share of very lucky off's at the ring and had one that for a moment was going to end very badly. I got away with it but I know that pit of the stomach horrible feeling when you do actually bend something and wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Hope you get it fixed soon :)

Ref the insurance thing, Mine is one of the ones that doesn't exclude the ring but even still I'd not like to take any chances.

I once left a plume of smoke behind the car at Hohe Acht similar to the sort of plume battleships used to make to cover a retreat. I stopped the car ASAP, and Sim and Simon stopped after me. That run up the track to try and warn oncoming traffic was horrible, thankfully it was all blown out of the exhaust and not left on track. I doubt i'll do TF again tbh too much to lose these days.

Graham88
16-07-2012, 12:59 PM
First I missed the point that it was you were commenting on what Daniel said so Sorry there.

this was why I thought it was an odd comment

The Nurburbring is a Third Party so Barriers are covered and could, but IMO should not be claimed for IMO this is a big reason UK insurance company have with drawn ring cover.

I also just wanted to make it clear to ALL they should not be driving at the ring if they think they do not have cover
No problem like I say now I realise that Dan meant 3rd party then yeah my comment probably does seem odd

And I stand corrected on the barrier front, I didn't think they were covered.

Das Chin
16-07-2012, 03:52 PM
good to hear you ok Nick and could have been a lot lot worse at that speed.
sounds like you met a saint out there and friend for life :thumb:

I had a big off at SX a few years back when some pikey klutz in a sierra xr4x4 from Sidcup T boned me over the crest. he was on some scumball thing and clearly had no insurance as he tried to do a runner.

scary coming off at that speed and spinning like a top. I still have no idea how I did not hit the armco so was lucky there.

the police (I got to know the local inspector as a result and nice bloke) helped me track him down as the office had his details and driving license. he managed to escape me at the office but I nailed him on the 3rd party liability under the green card.

not sure if that will help you with barrier cost?

main thing is you are ok and I am sure that cage helped reduce the lateral impact of the crash. I remember the ambulance guys saying to me the cage stopped me from a broken hip or back as the B Pillar and cage took all the impact.

am sure you can get it back on track soon and at least the carbon bonnet is in tact. :thumb:

if you want any help with translations or calls back out there then let me know. or how I got the money back from the other guys insurer under 3rd party.

DC

Prawn
16-07-2012, 05:08 PM
Thanks for the help DC, I think I'm pretty much sorted though. Nothing to claim from anyone else, all debts now paid off, it's just time to get on and fix the car.

And on that note, the adventure continues!

On saturday I went to see a mate who was breaking an a3, and picked up a rear beam and a pass side door from him, I then fitted the door on Sunday to get the car water tight again, as the bashed door was leaking like a seive in the UK rainy season

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/705bebd8.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/88a835a3.jpg

I whipped the coilover out to check it over, and it SEEMED to be OK:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/551f53da.jpg

It wasn't:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/th_2e944dbf.jpg (http://s1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/?action=view&current=2e944dbf.mp4)

After a quick phone call yesterday morning, the car was booked into Gareth (UB) for an assessment this morning.

Gareth said he better not be in the pic, so I've carefully removed him using my epic photoshop skills:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/AUB.png

To our amazement, we dropped the bent beam off, and offered the new one up, and EVERYTHING lined up perfectly, all the holes were perfect with no levering or manipulation, no visable signs of stress or movement under the car at all, just that strange small lift on the seat squab where the metal is thin.

Very odd indeed!

We bolted the new beam up, swapped over the brakes and bled them through, and I went off for a test drive.

SORTED! It drives straight and true again, and the rear wheel geo seems to be bang on. Words honestly can't describe how lucky I feel!

Here is the battered wreck, which now drives just fine despite the still dead front subframe, wishbone, knuckle, and coilover!

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/5045a782.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/8f0f8725.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/prawn16/Ring%20July%2012/dae3ba40.jpg

Hugely happy all in all, and a massive thanks to Gareth for fitting me in at such short notice!

Also met Oakie down there too, which was cool, had a good chat for a few hours whilst Gareth worked his magic. Very nice to meet you Nick, and Gareth! :thumb:

Absolutely top day for me today, feeling really positive again.

Can't wait to get back on track!

vw_singh
16-07-2012, 05:19 PM
Wow! While your at it buy some lottery tickets and ask for a pay rise. You never know eh?

Gurds

Nige
16-07-2012, 05:23 PM
Loving the `bent coilover vid` :lol:

How lucky are you ! :thumb:

northernjim
16-07-2012, 05:27 PM
Great news on the car Prawn :thumb:

You'll soon have that shipshape and bristol fashion I shouldn't wonder :thumb:

Gary Kinghorn
16-07-2012, 06:34 PM
I still can't believe how lucky you were :thumb:

Good news on the car too :thumb:

Tabs
16-07-2012, 07:33 PM
Wait until you start swapping bent things - that's when the fun starts :whistle:

Btw might have a set of KW V3's up for sale soon.

Weeman
16-07-2012, 07:34 PM
You should of let Oakie test drive it, he'd of bent the coil over back straight.

Simon
16-07-2012, 07:43 PM
You lucky ****er :veryhappy:

Great news, Nick.

Ian H
16-07-2012, 08:00 PM
Wow :shock:

Just caught up with the thread.

First of all, as said, gutted for you about the crash :sad:

But you are one lucky MF'er :thumb:

Prawn
16-07-2012, 08:28 PM
Wait until you start swapping bent things - that's when the fun starts :whistle:

Btw might have a set of KW V3's up for sale soon.

Let me know about these mate! Very much interested.

Prawn
16-07-2012, 08:30 PM
I do seem to be quite lucky I must admit.

The help and support I've had from people on here has been absolutely overwhelming to be honest, I cannot thank all you guys enough!
:veryhappy:

sparrow
16-07-2012, 09:01 PM
I do seem to be quite lucky I must admit.

The help and support I've had from people on here has been absolutely overwhelming to be honest, I cannot thank all you guys enough!
:veryhappy:
Awesome news, great to see that it's looking like a simple bolt some parts on fix.

Kev_G
16-07-2012, 09:50 PM
Prawn your lucky but top work :thumb:

Stumpy
16-07-2012, 09:52 PM
Looks meaner with a few battle scars anyway... :thumb:

Graham88
17-07-2012, 02:23 AM
That is great news Nick. Good to see it starting to look pretty normal already! What's the plans for the rear quarter? It's the only bit that's not an unboltable panel? New one or just filler it up?

piman2k
17-07-2012, 07:35 AM
That's really great news about it lining up mate. Very good times indeed. Perhaps this is an opportunity to make some more aesthetic changes, tho this time withOUT the Armco? :p

Happy for you bud!

Ollie_247
17-07-2012, 09:35 AM
what up and down trip.

bad luck but its seem lady luck was on your side

Neil Mac
17-07-2012, 11:38 AM
Wow. Bad news, but very well handled. :thumb:

Noticed on your video that it declared your post-accident corner speed to be 1mph. That's a bit lower than you intended, but to be able to function at all after such a high speed incident is pretty cool.

orsonbuggy
17-07-2012, 12:36 PM
It's invariably a big one there. Good to read that you got out uninjured :thumb:

The car'll mend.

Humpy
28-07-2012, 08:25 AM
Thanks for your open and frank report. It was a big off and could have been so much worse. As others have said, you dealt with it amazingly well. The main thing is that you are both okay and good to see that car is fixable :thumb:

Andy C
30-07-2012, 09:16 AM
Nick.

Can we have a hi res do-dah of that screen shot showing you at 140 mph pointed at the barriers?*** It makes me smile y'see (purely in the spirit of comedy hi jinks, not cos I want to see anyone crash.... they do that all by their own)

*** Norflupe collender 2013.