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View Full Version : Anyone got a sequential box?



Gary Kinghorn
08-03-2009, 05:26 PM
Other than those cars which have them as standard and the bike engined jobbies I just wondered if anyone on here has a sequential box? We have some pretty hard core modded cars but I dont remember anyone with one of these fellas???

pye21
08-03-2009, 05:29 PM
Its probably the 7k cost that wil put people off!!!

I know that the Quaife T5 sequential boxes are supposed to be shit, but they do start at 3.5k ish!!

Crossle
08-03-2009, 05:38 PM
Does my DSG count as sequential?

Simon
08-03-2009, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Crossle@Mar 8 2009, 06:38 PM
Does my DSG count as sequential?
Or my SMG :whistle:

Gary Kinghorn
08-03-2009, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Simon@Mar 8 2009, 06:53 PM
Or my SMG :whistle:
Have you got one on your E36 :fish:

Gary Kinghorn
08-03-2009, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Crossle@Mar 8 2009, 06:38 PM
Does my DSG count as sequential?
Do you have one on your 309 :fish:

Crossle
08-03-2009, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Gary Kinghorn@Mar 8 2009, 06:55 PM
Do you have one on your 309 :fish:
Not quite, but my Mk5 GTI has one...

Biturbo
09-03-2009, 12:38 PM
I've got an SMG on my E60 M5. No clutch pedal - so the heel & toe thread on the forum is of academic interest only to me (just as well - I could never do it). The gearbox has an auto mode as well as manual selection through the stubby lever (no DTC-style extended levers here!) or paddles on the back of the wheel.

I typically leave it in auto mode around town but punch the setting up to the third or fourth notch, as the default setting is appalling to use, cutting out for two seconds to change a gear just when you don't need it - when turning a corner, trying to get up the slope in the driveway, etc. Strangely the auto gearbox setting is just about the only function where you can't change the defaualt setting - if you're in auto, it comes on at setting 1 and that's it. Manual settings go to where you stick them and stay there until you tell them otherwise, but not auto for some reason...

Anyways, even though it's standard issue, I believe I qualify for this thread. Where do I claim my prize, Gary?

Montana
09-03-2009, 12:44 PM
I'd love a sequential box, if just for the noise.

Weeman
09-03-2009, 12:45 PM
Nope fail, DSG like mine and crossles, and smg's like yours and Si's, aint sequential gearbox, a sequential gearbox, is bang bang bang backwards on a 2 foot high gear stick for up, and bang bang bang forwards to change down. I dont know how they work, but i'd hazard a guess they are different from the manual two clucth gearboxes on vw's etc. I'll have a clio cup racer with a sadev sequential box please, more whining than gary on a monday morning. I would hazard a guess they are straight cut????



Oh Ignore all that I said, wiki says the DSG is more of a sequential than the bmw smg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_gearbox

Simon
09-03-2009, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Gary Kinghorn@Mar 8 2009, 06:54 PM
Have you got one on your E36 :fish:
No. on the E46 :thumb:

Nige
09-03-2009, 12:58 PM
Don`t they need rebuilding regularly too :huh:

Weeman
09-03-2009, 01:05 PM
Yeah a proper one does i think nige, I dont think they are very nmechanically sympathetic, hence the nice noise they make. I think thats why they aint on road cars, and the dsg, smg is a different kettle of fish

Its also the reason why i wont considering buying my gti when its out of lease, manual maybe, but I aint spending 3k + on a new gearbox if and when it goes bang LOL, sequentials are even more, You'd be an absolute hero if you have one ona road car though, I think some guy on cliosport had one on a clio v6 LOL

Tony
09-03-2009, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Andrew Thompson@Mar 9 2009, 01:51 PM
oakley design do a semi sequential shifter for the GT3. still need to use the clutch. seems a lot at 3-4k for the parts.
That's roughly the same as the one fitted to Monkey's 997 Cup car .......... and it's also the bit that lunched itself during the N24 and one other VLN race :whistle:

Bert ///M3
09-03-2009, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Weeman@Mar 9 2009, 01:45 PM
Nope fail, DSG like mine and crossles, and smg's like yours and Si's, aint sequential gearbox, a sequential gearbox, is bang bang bang backwards on a 2 foot high gear stick for up, and bang bang bang forwards to change down. I dont know how they work, but i'd hazard a guess they are different from the manual two clucth gearboxes on vw's etc. I'll have a clio cup racer with a sadev sequential box please, more whining than gary on a monday morning. I would hazard a guess they are straight cut????



Oh Ignore all that I said, wiki says the DSG is more of a sequential than the bmw smg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_gearbox
Doesn't need to be gearlever, they are there with steering paddles too.

They basicly work on the same principle as the gearbox in a bike. They have straigth cur gears though (hence the noise) When you pull the shift lever or paddle to upshift, the electronics will cut spark for a few millisec while the gearbox shifts, no clutch needed.

Cost is totally prohibitive though. The hardware from Drenth is around 10,000-12,000 euro's complete, Hewland and Xtrac are even more expensive. Then you need installation, software programming.

These boxes can cause you major engine managment software headaches. Also cars having them generally need a beefed up driveline.

Then they need new oil every race weekend, and a rebuild per season. Remember this is with a few racedays, if you drive around the ring a lot of weekends you need even more maintenance.

They are superlight though. Most 6 speed 400 NM sequencials weigh something like 30 KG only, especially the ones with magnesium casing. Compare that to a 60 KG BMW 6 speed or a 80 KG SMG transmission, and it's a considderable saving :)

Weeman
09-03-2009, 01:24 PM
Yeah, But i'd still want that uber lever hahaha


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtc97gYiIwA&feature=related

Darran
09-03-2009, 01:35 PM
There's a bit of muddling of the terms going on. The noise is down to having straight cut gears - stronger and lower power loss, but noisier, so not on road cars due to the noise. The sequential selection is down to a drum used to control gear selection rather than the gear lever moving the selector forks. I would guess that the reason true race transmissions often need rebuilds is because they use dog engagement rather than synchromeshes.

You can have various combinations - a full race box will be straight cut, sequential with dog engagement, while a road car has helical gearsets, H pattern and synchromeshes. The Zeroshift boxes can use dog engagement with an H pattern for road use. I'm a little hazy though when it comes to whether SMG/DSG and the like use dog engagement or synchros.

Beaten to most of this by Bert. D'oh.

Pete R
09-03-2009, 01:56 PM
I'm sure I read somewhere about a subaru tuner who managed to work some magic with the original h pattern box and convert it to sequential. Christ knows how but I'd like to know.

Will have a look for a link if the resident Impreza experts don't know of it.

_Nathan_
09-03-2009, 02:29 PM
SMG is a regular H pattern syncromesh box with hydraulic actuation of the change.

I want a Drenth DG400 quite badly, 9k Euro+vat, needs a check over every 50 hours.

Tony - are you sure that the cup car has a similar mechanism to the oakley designs upgrade? I thought 997 cup cars had proper straight cut sequential boxes with no need for the clutch on the upshift, not a bastardised H pattern syncro box that needs clutch still. The only benefit of the oakley shifter is it removes the danger of a mis-shift (3rd to 2nd upchange = ).

c_w
09-03-2009, 03:50 PM
Someone should have FAILed Weeman for his posts :P :D Any gearbox can make that noise if you cut the angle of the gears straight. Despite the strengh benefits I think high failure rate might be partially down to lack of mechanical sympathy due to the driver doing full throttle shifts. On a bike which I guess is the same principle it helps to have a throttle lift nicely timed in with the gearchange (but still don't need to use the clutch).

Trevor
09-03-2009, 04:22 PM
I think one of the Skyline guys from GTROC has one on his. When Dirk Schoysman drove it round the Ring he was well impressed. He also had 500 or 600 horses running under the bonnet stay. The suspension was more like standard than most and all together he was told it was excellent.

Think it is an H box type that moves things to make the changes work.

moleman
09-03-2009, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Trevor@Mar 9 2009, 05:22 PM
I think one of the Skyline guys from GTROC has one on his. When Dirk Schoysman drove it round the Ring he was well impressed. He also had 500 or 600 horses running under the bonnet stay. The suspension was more like standard than most and all together he was told it was excellent.

Think it is an H box type that moves things to make the changes work.
There's quite a few of the GT-Rs have them. Usually either Hollinger (circa 10k fitted) OS Giken (circa 7k) or and the odd Quaife.

The 34 Trevor is on about has an OS Giken sequential.

There is also the Ikeya shifter which adapts a normal H pattern 'box to give a cheap alternative. This what Trevor is on about.

One of the top Skyline drag cars uses H pattern with an Ikeya adapter and auto air shifter.


Great for cool points, not so great for the wallet and they have to come out and be serviced around once a year.

Floyd
09-03-2009, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Pete R@Mar 9 2009, 02:56 PM
I'm sure I read somewhere about a subaru tuner who managed to work some magic with the original h pattern box and convert it to sequential. Christ knows how but I'd like to know.

Will have a look for a link if the resident Impreza experts don't know of it.
That was Roger Clark. It looked V B)

GVK
09-03-2009, 05:33 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else 'play' with the Quaife sequential boxes @ Autosport show?

Require quite a bit of force to change gear - awesome though B)

http://www.cbradleymotorsport.co.uk/long%20gear%20lever%20website2.jpg

Guy on CGTI is having this in his Golf rally car.


Originally posted by Terry47
Does this qualify for inclusion in this thread?[;)]* Currently being installed in the tarmac rally car, its a 6 speed sequential box.

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/Terry47vw/DSC00596.jpg

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/Terry47vw/DSC00591.jpg

moleman
09-03-2009, 05:34 PM
Duplicate

moleman
09-03-2009, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by Floyd+Mar 9 2009, 06:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Floyd @ Mar 9 2009, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Pete R@Mar 9 2009, 02:56 PM
I&#39;m sure I read somewhere about a subaru tuner who managed to work some magic with the original h pattern box and convert it to sequential. Christ knows how but I&#39;d like to know.

Will have a look for a link if the resident Impreza experts don&#39;t know of it.
That was Roger Clark. It looked V B) [/b][/quote]
Probably similar to, if not one of these...

http://www.nengun.com/ikeya-formula/sequential-shifter

Pete R
09-03-2009, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by moleman+Mar 9 2009, 06:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moleman @ Mar 9 2009, 06:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Floyd@Mar 9 2009, 06:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Pete R@Mar 9 2009, 02:56 PM
I&#39;m sure I read somewhere about a subaru tuner who managed to work some magic with the original h pattern box and convert it to sequential. Christ knows how but I&#39;d like to know.

Will have a look for a link if the resident Impreza experts don&#39;t know of it.
That was Roger Clark. It looked V B)
Probably similar to, if not one of these...

http://www.nengun.com/ikeya-formula/sequential-shifter [/b][/quote]
Interesting read, it&#39;s a shame I have no idea of how to convert a saxo gearbox to sequential :(

pye21
09-03-2009, 06:47 PM
There is a guy tha has been building, stripping and rebuilding his 106 into different track specs for few years now. He has owned the car from new, and its had several different engine specs. The last spec (the one in the vid below) its has full Maxi arches, suspension and a Longmans S1600 spec engine with 210bhp and a beutiful Sadev sequential box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXkrvuRer1s

Its now being totally rebuilt with independant rear suspension, new cage, Longmans 280bhp 2.0litre BTCC spec lump, carbon roof, doors, wings, bumpers, 3 piece split rims and loads of other bits. The current rebuild stands him at 80k (not including any previous builds&#33;&#33;&#33;) and it will be an immense machine.

Build thread on 106 owners, of the current revision in progress.

http://www.106owners.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=21031

One of the companies he part owns, and the reason behind all the carbon.

http://www.streamlinecarbon.com/

Gary Kinghorn
09-03-2009, 07:33 PM
So nobody has a baarp baarp baarp aftermarket box ;)

sparrow
10-03-2009, 03:40 PM
Not on here, but RobT on ClubGTi has one in his hill climb Ibiza.

Ali M
10-03-2009, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by sparrow@Mar 10 2009, 04:40 PM
Not on here, but RobT on ClubGTi has one in his hill climb Ibiza.
I dont think RobT&#39;s is seqential Sparrow - I am pretty sure his is an SQS gearset, which when built, will give him a &#39;dogbox&#39;. It has straight cut gears so he will be able to gearchange without using the clutch but it will still not be a true seqential as it retains an H pattern shift - I think&#33; :huh:

However, I&#39;m pretty sure that it is possible to convert a dogbox to true seqential shift. I have seen this done on Evo&#39;s using a &#39;Seqishift&#39; (Sp?) system that somehow allows you to then just use straight forward and back pulls to change gear, so would therfore = a seqential box.

Unless he has actually done this already? :shame:

A mate has just installed one in his R32 Skyline. IIRC it cost him 7k 2nd hand&#33; :o

sparrow
10-03-2009, 07:32 PM
Errm, you could be right. :shame:

tallchap
11-03-2009, 06:35 PM
Had one in a Clio Cup race car we used to have..... top draw, loved it&#33;

Did by a Sadev ST24 for the ex-BTCC Clio from Belgium for 5000euro - about 2700 at the time&#33; - but never fitted it as it would have put us up a class and we wiped the floor in the class we were in - when the bloody thing worked....

My mate has the &#39;box now for the new super lightweight, big power, thottle-bodied clio he&#39;s building - should be good&#33;

M.

Gary Kinghorn
11-03-2009, 06:45 PM
Funny really, I know they are big bucks, but hey let&#39;s be fair, loads of us spend stupid money on mods. And to have something with the kind of Kudos it would bring, i&#39;m suprised nobody on here has one

dannygti
11-03-2009, 07:14 PM
some people are getting confused.

you can have straight cut and dog engagement gearbox in standard casing.

sequential box&#39;s are box&#39;s you push just forwards and backwards for gear selection.

with sequentials if they are dog engagement you can change gear by slightly lifting off the throttle but you still have to ue the clutch on downchanges.
you can also get "flatshift" like some people have mentioned wich enables you to stay full throttle under changing gear. most of the time this is controlled by a swicth on the clucth pedal so when you depress the clutch it cuts the ignition.


ive driven a few non bike engined sequential cars. they are truly awesome and a joy to use. you hve to be very direct with changed and no "half arsed" attempts and you get large rewards.


i agree gary, people spend on engines and other bits but lets not forget a gearbox can make or break a beautiful engine.

a video of the said 106 that ian (pye) described

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz4WBKz4rPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXkrvuRer1s

and the car ive driven on public road.......very very mind blowing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpoC1hTQslk

Gary Kinghorn
11-03-2009, 07:25 PM
baarp baarp baarp - I like :thumb:

alclark
11-03-2009, 09:19 PM
We have an HKS Sequential manual shifter on a standard H-Pattern box on our RX-7, that&#39;s pretty frickin&#39; awesome.

JamesW
11-03-2009, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by GVK@Mar 9 2009, 06:33 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else &#39;play&#39; with the Quaife sequential boxes @ Autosport show?

Require quite a bit of force to change gear - awesome though B)

i did, and i agree :thumb: