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View Full Version : E36 3 series, compare an M3 to a 328i sport.....



ChrisP
07-01-2009, 10:11 AM
To start this off, I'm not trying to compare them in terms of performance, circa 100 bhp is a large amount in anyones book. What I'm trying to understand is how much different they are, rating an M3 as 10/10, how does the sport measure up, 5/10, 7/10?

Reason being, an M3 evo is going to cost circa 4.5k upwards, a sport from 1.5k upwards, a bit of a difference in price - we all know that speed costs, but if I can have 50-75% of an M3 for 40% of the purchase price, I may well go that route to start off with. My RWD experiences start and finish off with an E34 525i sport that I owned for about 6 months - nice car, but a 'sports' car it is not, and I want to get used to RWD before I go putting it backwards through a wall!

Bear in mind, this is a pure road car for me, yes it may get used on track, but it isnt for putting a cage in etc

Lets hear your thoughts

EmmaW
07-01-2009, 10:14 AM
I have a 328 with an M3 engine in, for the same reasons, a cheap base to start with.

It's fine on track, and around the ring. I won't be caging it out though as i'll get a proper M3 and then do that, as it's not financially viable to cage out the 328, if it's gonna go fully track orientated, i'll do it properly with the M3 chassis.

But - it holds it's own quite happily on the road, and around a track :D

jon_r
07-01-2009, 10:44 AM
Been reading a lot about this having got a 328 sport recently. From what i can actually work out in the majority of cases the 328's always make over book power and the 3.0l M3 rarely do - though i'm perfectly happy to be proved otherwise. Once you add the M50 manifold + the BBTB the difference in power drops massively to about 50brake. And the 328 is lighter...

Saying that though if I was going to turn a E36 into a drt, it wouldn't be the 328 Sport - you'd be mad not to choose an M3, there are some proper bargains to be had, and some people are asking rediculous prices for the Sports - I think they see it turning into the E30 325 Sport desirability wise, which may or may not happen.

Weeman
07-01-2009, 10:56 AM
E36 are for ladies and fags, wonderfully pointed out by the last two posts on here.

E30 FTFW!!!!

Darran
07-01-2009, 11:00 AM
What are the differences chassis wise? IIRC the early 328 has an LSD, but the later model (with traction control) doesn't. Bigger brakes? Stiffer springs/dampers/ARBs? Revised geometry?

ChrisP
07-01-2009, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Weeman@Jan 7 2009, 11:56 AM
E36 are for ladies and fags, wonderfully pointed out by the last two posts on here.

E30 FTFW!!!!
Yes, but not all us of want a 4x4 :P

ChrisP
07-01-2009, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by jon_r@Jan 7 2009, 11:44 AM
Been reading a lot about this having got a 328 sport recently. From what i can actually work out in the majority of cases the 328's always make over book power and the 3.0l M3 rarely do - though i'm perfectly happy to be proved otherwise. Once you add the M50 manifold + the BBTB the difference in power drops massively to about 50brake.

Saying that though if I was going to turn a E36 into a drt, it wouldn't be the 328 Sport - you'd be mad not to choose an M3, there are some proper bargains to be had, and some people are asking rediculous prices for the Sports - I think they see it turning into the E30 325 Sport desirability wise, which may or may not happen.
From my understanding, the 328 engine was strangled because of a german tax law - I stand to be corrected on that, but it does go some way to explaining how the easy manifold and tb mods can release a few ponies

Just remember that I am asking about how good the sport is in relation to the M3, I know its not going to be as good......

Montana
07-01-2009, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by jon_r@Jan 7 2009, 11:44 AM
majority of cases the 328's always make over book power and the 3.0l M3 rarely do - though i'm perfectly happy to be proved otherwise.
Actually its the 3.0L that more often that not makes over book power, usually something approaching 300Bhp.
The Evo usually makes slightly less, closer to 310Bhp.

However, considering the Evo is 321PS and thus 316Bhp in standard form, its not the end of the world.

With the M3 opposed to the Sport you get some cool suspension stuff, a shorter rack and an engine thats designed to have its neck wringed for 90% of its life.

However, if you are looking at a combined vehicle, so not 100% track focused I'd say the 328sport was a definite better option simply due to the cost differences and chucking a couple hundred at it in the form of a 325 inlet means it can take the 328 sport up to 240ish Bhp.

As for actual road performance, the standard suspension on the M3 is vastly superior to the sport, and the brakes are a world apart.

However, spend a few and that gap dissapears.

Start spending even more though and the M3 drastically pulls ahead.

However, this could all be nonsense, this is based on my ownership of a standard M3, a prepped M3 and my mates 328 sport. So only one persons opinion.

jon_r
07-01-2009, 11:15 AM
I think Russ will be your man tbh! He'll be along soon.

Simon
07-01-2009, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Montana@Jan 7 2009, 12:14 PM

With the M3 opposed to the Sport you get some cool suspension stuff, a shorter rack and an engine thats designed to have its neck wringed for 90% of its life.


The rack on the 3.0 is the slowest rack know to man. I changed mine for a 325 one (could not get a Z3 one when looking :( ) and it is a certain improvement.

The engines do love rev's though :thumb:

Weeman
07-01-2009, 11:37 AM
Roffle oh simon how un informed you are, remind me to let you try the shed next time your over, that bearded chap that went down on the titanic had less turns lock to lock than an e30 rack :lol:

Montana
07-01-2009, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Simon@Jan 7 2009, 12:34 PM
The rack on the 3.0 is the slowest rack know to man. I changed mine for a 325 one (could not get a Z3 one when looking :( ) and it is a certain improvement.

The engines do love rev's though :thumb:
The Evo has a shorter rack though, second only to the Z3 rack...

Or thats what I've been told.

Russ_F
07-01-2009, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by jon_r@Jan 7 2009, 12:15 PM
I think Russ will be your man tbh! He'll be along soon.
I haven't got time to righ a big paragraph but in my experience,

assuming you start with 2 good examples

The 328i sport(i prefere the lsd version) is a great alternative to an M3, i've had a couple and they are spot on :thumb:

I doubt very much you'd see 240bhp with an m50 manifold mod + remap

328 running costs substantially less

You can fit the 3.0l m3 diff into the sport carrier

there's no reason not to make one a drt

I wouldn't say the suspension is vastly better on the m3, better yes vastly no...

You could drop an m3 engine in down the road easily enough

And take no notice of weeman, he likes something slower because he likes the scenery

Got to go sandwich finished :wave:

Weeman
07-01-2009, 12:12 PM
he has a point I do love the scenery, specially as it flashes by 2 feet from my head at 120 mph. :lol:

jon_r
07-01-2009, 12:21 PM
And lets face it, with a car that high you get a good view of it! :lol:

Weeman
07-01-2009, 12:24 PM
I pick up that gauntlet Richardson, see you soon !!!! :lol:

Simon
07-01-2009, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by jon_r@Jan 7 2009, 01:21 PM
And lets face it, with a car that high you get a good view of it! :lol:
pmsl :lol: :lol:

Better view than a truck driver :whistle:

Montana
07-01-2009, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Russ_bmworx@Jan 7 2009, 01:05 PM
I doubt very much you'd see 240bhp with an m50 manifold mod + remap
There are a good few at 235Bhp on the rolling road thread on bmwowner.com

Granted, its not 240Bhp :D

jon_r
07-01-2009, 12:34 PM
Yep, its certainly worth the 400.

Simon
07-01-2009, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Montana@Jan 7 2009, 01:32 PM
There are a good few at 235Bhp on the rolling road thread on bmwowner.com

Granted, its not 240Bhp :D
And a RR never lies, does it? :blink: :whistle:

Weeman
07-01-2009, 12:39 PM
90% of clio's on Cliosport make 220 hp when RR'd with a filter and "zorst" as i beleive the kids call em.

Montana
07-01-2009, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Simon+Jan 7 2009, 01:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Simon @ Jan 7 2009, 01:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Montana@Jan 7 2009, 01:32 PM
There are a good few at 235Bhp on the rolling road thread on bmwowner.com

Granted, its not 240Bhp :D
And a RR never lies, does it? :blink: :whistle: [/b][/quote]
Theres a couple of the graphs even on proper rolling roads&#33;

Mind, thats not to say they are even close to being right but when there are a number all from different RRs it does make for appropriate evidence.

Its arguing semantics really though isnt it. A 325 inlet manifold makes the 328 have more power.

That much is true.

Montana
07-01-2009, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Weeman@Jan 7 2009, 01:39 PM
90% of clio&#39;s on Cliosport make 220 hp when RR&#39;d with a filter and "zorst" as i beleive the kids call em.
I believe that every single clio is also faster than my car "in the twisties" also.

And that any with a &#39;zorst&#39; or neons are also faster than mine in a straight line.

alclark
07-01-2009, 12:43 PM
I did look at these - drove a couple, liked all of them.

Look at your grin factor - do you get twice the grin factor in an M3 over a sorted E36 328iS even though the costs are a lot more?

There was a thread on this ages ago, I&#39;ll have a search&#33;

jon_r
07-01-2009, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Simon+Jan 7 2009, 01:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Simon @ Jan 7 2009, 01:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Montana@Jan 7 2009, 01:32 PM
There are a good few at 235Bhp on the rolling road thread on bmwowner.com

Granted, its not 240Bhp :D
And a RR never lies, does it? :blink: :whistle: [/b][/quote]
To be fair on this one i&#39;d heard 220 - 230 is genuine along with the DaveF induction. Theres a back to back pic of the M50 and M52 inlet about somewhere and the difference makes it fairly obvious where the extra 20 brake comes from. It is fairly well restricted as standard.

Lots have done it on e36coupe.com and all get a similar gain.

Darran
07-01-2009, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Weeman@Jan 7 2009, 01:39 PM
90% of clio&#39;s on Cliosport make 220 hp when RR&#39;d with a filter and "zorst" as i beleive the kids call em.
Whilst unloading various car bits and the less-than-perfect RX8 at my new place last month, the lad next door told me that what I need to do is fit a Pipercross air filter and Lexus lights - the Pipercross gives 50bhp on most cars apparently. :blink:

alclark
07-01-2009, 01:16 PM
Tell you what though- it&#39;s far easier to find an M3 than a decent 328iS if the current selection on Pistonheads is anything to go by...

Simon
07-01-2009, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Darran@Jan 7 2009, 02:04 PM
the Pipercross gives 50bhp on most cars apparently. :blink:
Christ. I&#39;d heard 60+ :lol:

Tony
07-01-2009, 01:32 PM
Z3 rack FTW but I&#39;m quite happy with my normal &#39;slow&#39; rack tbh. At least it is consistent and feels a whole lot better with this: :thumb:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/tonyeyles/Interior2.jpg

Going back to the original thread, an M3 has a more agreesive suspension set up (though not by much) but it does have a wider track iirc.
Obviously the LSD makes a huge difference and the &#39;fit for purpose&#39; element is important if you are intending to go on track.

BUT, if it is predominantly for the road then a 328i (ideally with a diff) and some of the aforementioned tweeks to the intake/inlet/exhaust would make a 230bhp car that will feel 80% of an M3 on the A road with much lower running costs :thumb:

Simon
07-01-2009, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Tony@Jan 7 2009, 02:32 PM
Z3 rack FTW but I&#39;m quite happy with my normal &#39;slow&#39; rack tbh.
Just not the Z3M as that has the same slow rack :nono:

I changed mine as the old one was on it&#39;s last legs as well:(